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Comparing the Different Arcs of the Revival

Guest contributor Holly Illis examines the arcs from each era of New Who.

doctor-who-bad-wolf-arc

I don’t think the RTD vs Moffat debate (*cough* argument *cough*) will ever really stop, not until this generation is dead, which is a cheerful way to start an article. I’m not here to pick a side (well, I’ll try not to), I just want to examine the advantages and disadvantages of what I think is one of the main differences in the two eras – story arcs. The ones that only last a series (Bad Wolf, Saxon, the bees/planets disappearing), and the ones that span three years (the crack in the wall, Silence will Fall.)

One of the biggest criticisms of the RTD era is the romance, the “soapy” element. And the fact that RTD’s story arcs only lasted a series, and weren’t really developed until the series finales, allowed more room for this “soapy” element. So if you don’t like the romance, you’re probably going to be against the series-long arcs.

Donna-Noble-Journeys-EndThe arc lasting only a series really allows us to understand a character better, understand motives, and feel more sorry for them when they reach an inevitably sad ending (with the exception of Martha.) Take Donna. She started off as a temp, her mum was constantly on her back, she had no confidence, thought she was useless, and over the course of 13 episodes she developed, and her friendship with the Doctor showed her that she was incredibly important.

And what actually happened in that series? In Partners in Crime Donna mentioned in passing the bees disappearing, in The Unicorn and the Wasp she muttered “1926, they’ve still got bees”, and then nothing, right up until the finale. And for me, the fact that we weren’t concentrating on bees, or darkness, we were concentrating on Donna, made the ending even sadder. We had seen Donna grow as a character, and gain confidence in herself, instead of focusing on a complex plot that was forever referring to a mysterious far off resolution. She had so many different sides to her character, and then everything, everything she had done and learned about herself was wiped from her memory. And in the end, the whole thing had nothing to do with the bees! I know The Stolen Earth/Journey’s End is quite a controversial double, but I found that the fact that it didn’t really have much of a build up in no way took away from what I think is a fantastic story and an incredibly sad ending.

amy-scream-almost-endNow compare Donna to Amy. By the time we got to Asylum of the Daleks, I really thought I knew Amy. She was a good character, properly developed, and I thought I could generally understand her. Halfway through series 6, it was revealed that she had been kidnapped so that Madame Kovarian could use her baby to kill the Doctor – something that was resolved two whole years later. At the time, I didn’t think Amy having a big part in this story really took away from her character, but what happened at Demons Run meant that she could never have children again. And now we go back to Asylum of the Daleks, and because she is not able to have children, she splits up with Rory. What? Where did that come from? I thought that that was completely out of character and totally unnecessary. I just could not understand why she did that and it really stuck out as something un-Amyish, just so that Asylum of the Daleks could have a bit of extra plot.

I’m rambling. The point is, I think if we’re not tied down by a long plot line, we can get to know characters better and they won’t do something completely out of character.

martha-doctor-blinkThe other main advantage of series long arcs (that aren’t really built upon) is that, in my opinion, they allow the writers to focus solely on fantastic individual episodes without having to link them to the arc. Here’s an interesting fact: in the recap of DWTV’s Series 1-7 face-off, I noticed that whenever one of Moffat’s episodes from the RTD era came up against one of his episodes from his era, the one from the RTD era always won. I think most people will probably agree that Moffat has never written an episode better than Blink, when he wasn’t focusing on an arc. I also absolutely love The Girl in the Fireplace, and his doubles were easily my favourite doubles from their respective series. In every case, they are self-contained stories, not linked to lengthy, convoluted arcs.

While Moffat’s era has lots of stand-out episodes in the middle of the series (like The Doctor’s Wife, Vincent and the Doctor), I personally am hard pushed to find any as good as his from the RTD era, and other RTD era episodes, like Human Nature/The Family of Blood, Midnight… the list goes on. And while the hardcore fans are always important, I think the casual viewer is just as important, if not more so, and I think the RTD era probably appeals to them more.

However, years-long arcs undoubtedly have their advantages. For one story to last three years is quite a feat, and to do this it has to have so much potential, a great concept and loads of things to explore – pretty much all the advantages rolled into one. The series arcs, while highly entertaining and with their own advantages, are quite linear, and sometimes squashing their resolution into two episodes can be tricky.

rose-parting-of-the-ways-endingThis is another main criticism of the RTD era – the deus ex machina. Trying to squash a big resolution into two episodes sometimes gives a writer no option but to finish with something completely unexpected. Sometimes this can work well – like in The Parting of the Ways, where Rose comes back having absorbed all the energy of the Time Vortex, giving her the power to destroy the whole Dalek fleet and resurrect Jack. At least this was mentioned earlier in the series – the Doctor does say that the TARDIS is a living thing, sort of telepathic, and in Boom Town Margaret Slitheen looks into its heart. And for most of The Parting of the Ways Rose is trying to break open the TARDIS, so it doesn’t come as a huge surprise when she arrives on Platform 1 able to save the Doctor.

But then there’s Last of the Time Lords, and the Tinkerbell ending where the Doctor is restored to his original form by the whole of planet Earth wishing. I know that “I had a whole year to integrate myself into the Archangel network” but we had no warning of this ending, and it seems very rushed, because the resolution had to be fit into the last ten minutes or so of that episode.

While years-long arcs are definitely more prone to plot holes, they are less linear and keep you wondering, keep tugging you along, all building up to the climax, which, after three years, has to be massive. Some people think that The Time of the Doctor wasn’t a very good episode, but I don’t think there’s any denying that it was big. The Bad Wolf arc in series 1 was essentially us wondering what it is, oh it’s been mentioned again, what is it, what is it, what is it, oh that’s what it is, and on to the next arc. The crack and the Silence ran for years, and when we discovered that they were interlinked, it was quite a satisfying moment, finally resulting in the regeneration of the Eleventh.

In this article I’ve been trying to focus on just one element that separates the two eras, the difference in arcs, but it’s been difficult, because they are so different in so many ways. RTD and Moffat have very contrasting styles, and because of these styles, and their different approaches, it’s pointless in a way to have these endless debates, because it all comes down to opinion. Then again, the point of a debate surely is to try and persuade the other side to go with your opinion, so, er… as you were. If you can guess which era I prefer by the way, I’ll be very impressed, due to my total unbiasedness. (Sarcasm). And yes… ‘unbiasedness’ is a word.

Step back in time...

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226 comments
ShameOnSM
ShameOnSM

Didn't Moffat create the worst character ever? River Song?

doctorwhomultiverse
doctorwhomultiverse

A problem I have with Moffat's work is that it seems the Universe is ending every five seconds and on two occasions all of his enemies just gather together. Honestly, Time was a story focused on the Daleks so the scenes with the cybermen and angels seemed like fillers to me.

A Friend of the Ood
A Friend of the Ood

What I don't understand is that in series 5, the cracks had nothing in them and if they touched you, you were erased from time. Then in Time of the Doctor, suddenly the Time Lords are on the other side. Did I miss something? Was this ever explained?

CallumSimmons
CallumSimmons

The one thing I loved about new series arcs is everything in the series or in multiple series ties together in the finale and you feel like the whole series was a journey. I know lots of people don't like TOTD but liked how the entire 11th doctor era tied together even Day of The Doctor. I like how in series 5 the whole crack thing comes together with all the characters from series five playing a role and how in a good man goes to war it ties up series 6 part 1 and the doctor using his foes to fight his enemies. The sort of story where everything ties together. I don't know why but I love series 1, 2,3,4,5, 7 arcs but series 6's payoff on the survival I just found disappointing.

awkward912
awkward912

I realised yesterday that Gwyneth all but says that Rose is Bad Wolf in The Unquiet Dead, but no one realised. Now THAT is clever.

davidbrummy
davidbrummy

When we switched over to multi season arcs in the Moffat era I felt a but unsatisfied.  I had gotten used to each season being in a nice clean box. However I did grow to like the idea more when he introduced the idea of the oldest question.  Sadly though it all fell apart for me in the Time of the Doctor.  At this point there was so many questions to deal with there was little time for a plot or an explanation of how the Doctor could regenerate again. 

PeterThompson
PeterThompson

I prefer Moffat myself. I do think he drags some of his arcs too long and makes them a bit complicated but I do prefer that over trying to fit as much into a final episode as possible. The article mentions series arcs allow you to learn more about characters but i think the bigger arcs do as you learn more bit by bit. Yeah there have been apparent inconsistencies in characters like Amy leaving Rory but then isn't this normal - people often do things in real life that would appear out of character.


Polyphase
Polyphase

Arcs I can take or leave but when it's something as poor as just showing a crack at the end of every episode it gets a bit annoying and quite frankly reeks of laziness. Bad Wolf and the maybe even the Bees were both quite good Ideas though :)

davbart92663
davbart92663

My main problem with Moffat is that he uses the Tardis (& time) as a weapon. Has ANY OTHER Doctor, or series, used it so constantly? From Pandorica to the Night of the Doctor, the inconsistencies of Moffat' s writing is irritating.

robdw
robdw

"I think most people will probably agree that Moffat has never written an episode better than Blink."



The Eleventh Hour!



There's this idea that Steven Moffat does all these ontological paradoxes and Russell T Davies does character stuff, but it doesn't quite bear out. S1 and S3 are both ontological paradoxes - and the Bad Wolf arc is pretty much exactly the same as the Impossible Girl arc, only the Doctor acknowledges the Impossible Girl from the start. Clara projects herself back in time, rather than a key phrase, but it's the same idea.



Mr. Saxon's living on Earth, manipulating Martha's family all through episodes 1 to 7... but he's not born until episode 11! That is both timier and wimier than S5, which is happening all across space and time, it's a singularity, but pretty much experienced chronologically relative to the Doctor. "This, then this, then this, then this, then finale."


I don't think the key difference is scifi v. soap or character v. puzzlebox, more often that Russell T Davies' stories tended to be anchored to a present day "home" timeline, whereas Steven Moffat's are generally relative to the Doctor's personal timeline. Steven Moffat arguably lacks a clear POV, so with something like the S6 story everyone's in a different place with different levels of knowledge.



The_Eternal_Dalek
The_Eternal_Dalek

"I don’t think the RTD vs Moffat debate (*cough* argument *cough*) will ever really stop, not until this generation is dead"


A debate and an argument are the same thing. Just people seem to get in in their heads that an argument involves shouting and lowering yourself down to "pub fight" level.


But no, the debate will ever end because people never stop. The only thing that will stop is people aiming it directly between those two because hopefully by that point people will have realised there are actually MORE people involved with producing the show over its (currently) 51 year history than those two men and when that sixteen year gap seems as meaningless as the 18 month gap between seasons 22 and 23 does now.

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

Well I wouldn't exactly say it was a surprise that she arrives back on Platform 1. By the time she even starts to try and get the Tardis to go back, it's obvious that she's going to succeed. Of course, not so predictable that she was going to do the Bad Wolf thing etc. Also, by the way, it's not Platform 1. Platform 1 is the viewing station for the Sun's explosion in 'The End of the World'. This one is called Satellite 5 in 'The Long Game', while it is a news station. And is then changed to The Game Station by 'Bad Wolf' and 'The Parting of the Ways'.

I never even thought about how silly 'The Last of the Time Lords' resolution is. And please don't call it Tinkerbell; that's just silly in itself. However, I suppose you can justify it to yourself, because if The Master manages to achieve all of that through The Archangel Network, it's possible that The Doctor could do that in a reverse way too. But saying that's bad because that was done all in the last 10 minutes isn't really a good point, because every episode is like that. Rose manages to return in the Tardis, say a speech, destroy the Daleks, revive Jack, and the Doctor takes her Time Vortex energy and regenerates, all in less than 10 minutes, in 'The Parting of the Ways'. 'Doomsday' has a deliberately, more drawn out ending, for emotional sakes :'( , so that lasts about 15 - 20 minutes, depending on when you count the ending from. Journey's End also has a much longer ending, for the same reason. And in fact, having just looked it up, 'The Last of the Time Lords actually leaves 20 minutes for its resolution, not 10.

On a relevant subject, I hate how the newer episodes of Doctor Who (Series 7 part 2) have a massive build up, and are resolved so quickly, and with minimal effort.

Which links on to how, I think the massive story arc throughout Moffat's era, has built up, and been concentrated on so much, that it was rubbish. It's not like in RTD's era, that it was all a build up, an okay resolution, and moving swiftly on. And it's not like Moffat's era is a massive thrilling build up and an amazing payoff at the end. It's just "okay-ish I suppose". But none of the Moffat series finales, in my opinion, compare to RTD's era's.

I can't be bothered to write a whole paragraph on it right now, but I also hate how incredibly obvious Moffat's era's story arcs are.

Bet you can't guess my preference either.








davbart92663
davbart92663

@ShameOnSM I don't think the character was poorly created, but the story arc/explanation was too convoluted. Living backwards in time? Why not just say 2 time travelers? I think the River Song/ Melody Pond was Moffat at his best, taking trivia from past episodes and building epics from them, but two years of the story was too much.

PeterThompson
PeterThompson

@doctorwhomultiverse I don't think Time focused on anything too much but I do agree that each finale is trying in a sense to outdo themselves and this is a problem in general with new who - davros trying to destroy everything, the end of time, the big bang etc.

Sharaz_Jek
Sharaz_Jek

@doctorwhomultiverse Time wasn't really focused on any villain - yes, the Daleks were the ones with the most prominence, being the last ones left to fight the Doctor and the Silence, but the episode skipped most of the conflict, condencing it into voice-over narration, and instead focused on the Doctor going towards his death and Clara's struggle. Pandorica Opens on the other hand was a mis-direction as the first episode made the audience believe we would get another massive alien army like in RTD's finales, but then instead focused on Amy. It is true however that Moffat loves playing with time, erasing history in Series 5, crashing it all together in Series 6, and manipulating the Doctor's personal history in Series 7.


davbart92663
davbart92663

@doctorwhomultiverse there were soon many problems with TotD, not the least of which was it was a month after the 50th movie. None of the 4 villains actually threatened the Doctor, the Silents are now good guys, a wooden Cyberman (because nothing wood is technical?), and an Angel that grabs Clara's ankle, but nothing happens. But the worst sin of Moffat's is the Nano-tech Daleks.



Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@doctorwhomultiverse I agree. When thinking of 'The Time of the Doctor', I don't even think of it as a Dalek episode. I think, it's fair enough that Moffat wanted to end Matt Smith's time very dramatically, which makes it a bit more justifiable for that episode. But generally, Moffat does overuse the same aliens often, and likes to put more than one in one episode, to try and be dramatic.

I think, his era of the series, has had Doctor Who become more similar to American series'. By that I mean, it's become more dramatic, and has had cliffhangers that go onto the next season.

PeterThompson
PeterThompson

@A Friend of the Ood I'll try and explain what i think with the cracks and everything:






With something being inside the cracks They did have something in them kind of - Prisoner Zero came through the cracks so it appears that the cracks sometimes had links to different places, possibly parallel universes, galaxies etc - The people after prisoner zero didn't come through the crack so that link was probably just a shortcut to some place. The best way to think about it is that the cracks caused instability and so things that shouldn't be there where.  


As to the other questions people have been asking basically the doctor saved gallifrey from the start but it was his future self that saved gallifrey meaning with the timelines out of sync the other doctor's can#t remember and so they spend their time believing they destroyed it - so while their emotions, anger etc might have been for nothing they believed different so it doesn't change the pain they felt. 


The cracks themselves were created by the silence trying to stop the timelords returning via the cracks - they hoped that the tardis exploding would do this but they actually did a day of the daleks type thing and ended up creating the cracks themselves by doing this. 

I was slightly confused originally about the message sent out across the whole of time and space mainly because the doctor should have heard it earlier. But like with the other doctor's not remembering saving Gallifrey, the doctor's timeline needed to sync, he couldn't hear the messages because he had yet to save gallifrey. 

Finally the events of name of the doctor were at a point when the doctor hadn't saved gallifrey and so hadn't been given extra regenerations so what he saw was a future that now won't happen as the events of the time of the doctor has changed it. However there is another possibility being that the events we seen is still in the future and trenzalore is the death place of the doctor just not smiths











whaaaaaaat
whaaaaaaat






@A Friend of the Ood 
What I know about that the cracks in the universe is, first, in series 5, the cracks caused by Rassilon's attempts to escape the Last Great Time War by the help of The Master in "The End of Time" part 2 . Then, the crack showed up on Amy's bedroom wall, rewriting history. It caused Amy didn't remember all events from the last time the Doctor was on Earth (the earth was stolen, Daleks everywhere, etc). As you know, it led to the second Big Bang of the universe caused by the exploding TARDIS of his. And I got no idea why the hell Prisoner Zero or any other alien monsters had to escape the Silence. Did they know The Doctor's real name, so that they had to run from the silence? And that's MOFFAT for you, ladies and gentlemen. Second, in the Time of The Doctor, hmm.. in The Day of The Doctor, all 13 doctors helped freezing Gallifrey in single moment in time and space, saved in a "pocket universe". I reckon The Doctor clearly said, in Time of The Doctor,  "someone's trying to get through it, from outside our universe,from somewhere else. If you tried to break a wall, you'd choose the weakest spot. To break into this universe, you'd choose this crack.If you were trying to back into this universe....", and then he requested Handles to answer why it said it was Gallifrey. Handles said it WAS Gallifrey, asking "the oldest question in the universe hidden in plain sight": "Doctor who?". CMIIW 
Don't worry, I've been there, confused with the storyline.

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@CallumSimmons Everything ties together. Except it doesn't really, because there are so many plot holes gained from this grand arc, and no matter how good the finale, it can't ever live up to the hype of the duration.

Malohkeh
Malohkeh

@davbart92663 Wait...you're complaining about him doing something frequently and calling it inconsistency? I'm confused...

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@robdw I think the Impossible Girl story arc, and the Bad Wolf story arc show some similarites, but they are certainly not "pretty much exactly the same".

I personally, hate 'The Eleventh Hour'. I thought the CGI of Prisoner Zero was terrible. And I hated how it doesn't really make sense. It links with later episodes, but isn't really explained very well.

I don't think 'Blink' is his best episode yet. I think it's quite overrated. It was certainly very good and original. But I prefer nearly all of his other stories during RTD's era.

A Friend of the Ood
A Friend of the Ood

@robdw The reason the Bad Wolf arc works is that it's so simple. A phrase spread through time and space that inspired Rose to keep trying until she looked into the TARDIS, then saved the Doctor and Jack and spread Bad Wolf through time and space. There aren't any plot holes in that. No inconsistencies and everything was foreshadowed before so it all makes sense.


Then there's the Impossible Girl arc, which tries to be a more complicated Bad Wolf. There was no foreshadowing on the actual resolution and it all seems made up on the spot because he needed a resolution. And then there's the fact that it all kind of didn't happen because of Time of the Doctor...


I love the Harold Saxon arc, it's probably the most "timey wimey" arc of the whole series. It's just too bad the resolution was so bad.

robdw
robdw

@Ollie Walton Harrod  It's not that it's sudden, it's not that the ending happens in the last ten or twenty minutes of the episode, it's that it happens without foreshadowing. Doomsday worked, everything was foreshadowed, the gravity clamps, the two levers, the voidstuff, poetry! The End of Time, likewise, and Boom Town traded a present tense, "Er, what?" for a free pass two episodes down the line. But something like LotTL (which I otherwise love, it's a properly excellent finale), just sort of comes out of the blue with, "Oh, by the way, the hypnosis satellites also confer rejuvenative superpowers." Sorry, run that past me again!



The frustrating thing is, that's the sort of story where they could absolutely have worked it in. They wouldn't have needed much, just a little scene in The Sound of Drums, where the Master deflects, let's say, a bit of US gunfire - he's convinced the UK to believe in him, and the Archangel network has converted that belief into psychic energy. His resistance dwindles when the Joneses try to escape at the start of LotTL, cos belief has become fear, which is no use to the network. Then you've got a populace who's enslaved by their misplaced faith in a political smokescreen, and eventually freed by their belief in genuine heroes. Very political! But as it stands, it's just a bit, "Oh, all right, they're chanting. And now he's floating. And he can repel lasers, for some reason." For me, it's the one weak scene in a phenomenal ending, but regrettably it comes at a fairly crucial moment.



I think RTD's written most of the best finales - I think Steven Moffat's one-part finales struggle to fit their timeslot, bit of a square peg round hole thing going on - but SM does squeeze in a set-up and pay-off, and his one long-form finale stands head and shoulder above any other finale by either showrunner, for me.

IamTheDoctorBasicallyRun
IamTheDoctorBasicallyRun

Yes the Tinkerbell resolution was silly, especially its execution. The Doctor hovering in a blue glow deflecting laser beams? What? Why?

PeterThompson
PeterThompson

@davbart92663 @ShameOnSM It's technically not backwards though and that's what confuses a lot of people it mainly is but it's basically out of order and jumbled up

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@davbart92663 @ShameOnSM not with the amount of love she had for him by 'Silence in the Library' and 'Forest of the Dead'. I think it should have lasted longer, and less should have been revelaed immediately. Also, it's been done in a really awkward order. I'd have preferred it, if it had literally just been done backwards, with every time he meetes her, that's one less time for her.

A Friend of the Ood
A Friend of the Ood

@PeterThompson @A Friend of the Ood I hadn't thought about it before, but even series 5 was inconsistent with the cracks. I guess some of them are like portals (Eleventh Hour, Vampires in Venice, Time of the Doctor) and others have nothing on the other side and make things never exist (Flesh and Stone, Cold Blood, The Pandorica Opens, The Big Bang). So what's the difference? What caused some to be portals and others to be nothing?


Another inconsistency: When Amy could still remember the Clerics after they were erased from time, the Doctor said it was because she was a time traveler. So why couldn't she remember Rory?

A Friend of the Ood
A Friend of the Ood

@whaaaaaaat @A Friend of the Ood The cracks were caused by the TARDIS exploding. It had nothing to do with Rassilon. Other than that, everything else is how I understand it. 

Time of the Doctor completely screwed up the crack arc, which was resolved in series 5. It made sense how it was. It should have been left alone.


Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@whaaaaaaat @A Friend of the Ood There are so many plot holes in Moffat's time. Various ones have been/are being stated, particularly on this article.

For example (and please do answer them, if there is an answer, and I'm just being stupid): 

How did the Doctor and Clara escape the Doctor's time stream, in 'The Name of the Doctor'?

Why do the War and Tenth Doctor forget the events of 'The Day of the Doctor', but the Eleventh Doctor retains all memory of it?

How is the Doctor able to contact his past selves and future self, in 'The Day of the Doctor'? Also: Since he is able to contact his first future self, Why is he sure he is going to die, and not regenerate in 'The Time of the Doctor'? Furthermore: I don't understand how the whole idea of the Doctor having been working on Gallifrey throughout all of his regenerations, makes sense, because surely then, he would have basically been doing that all of his life, meaning no other events of Doctor Who (that occured in classic and modern) would have happened.

and this is more of a general one: Where do the laws stand, in terms of meeting yourself, from the past and/or future? Because the Doctor seems to have done it multiple times, yet Rose couldn't in 'Father's Day', and I'm guessing there have been other events similar to that.

They're the only ones I can think of right now, but I'm sure there are more.


davbart92663
davbart92663

@whaaaaaaat @A Friend of the Ood alternative to the Cracks...they are a scar on reality left by paradoxes. The Paradox from the Master (s4) left the scar for #11. The Pandorica/Big Bang might also have caused/effected (timey-wimey) a paradox. The saving of Galifrey caused a paradox, leaving a scar.

davbart92663
davbart92663

@A Friend of the Ood @davbart92663 By constantly using Time as a plot device. Before Moffat, the Tardis was the horse to arrive on, then leave at the end of the show. He has used Time as a solution, like in the Big Bang, Doctor flitting back and forth over 2 thousand years with precision, having a conversation with Rory. In the Christmas Carol, he moves through Time (again, precise movements), literally having a conversation. When has the Doctor ever had that much control over the Tardis? The solution to River Song was time travel, the solution to Clara was time travel, the solution to Day of the Doctor was time travel.  


davbart92663
davbart92663

@Malohkeh @davbart92663 if you are going to give the Doctor the ability to move precisely through time, to the second, then he ought to have it always. Why can River fly Tardis silently, but no one else? What happened to the "no crossing time streams" rule? 13 Doctors saved Galifrey, but none knew it? What about the "Fixed point in time" rule? Was the Death of Galifrey a fixed point, or did the Doctor know all of the time that he could undo his genocide?    These are inconsistencies that Moffat introduces when he uses Time Travel as a plot device so constantly.

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@robdw @Ollie Walton Harrod ok. I guess your explanation does actually make sense. A little bit of foreshadowing might have been nice. 'The Last of the Time Lords' is actually my least favourite of the finale's, but I just kind of accepted that that can happen, and went along with it.

conallmc2013
conallmc2013

@IamTheDoctorBasicallyRun I need to say something about the Time of the time lords. There are not magical satellites nor are the wishes magical in nature it has long been established that time lords have incredible telepathic powers. It also explains how this occurred by Martha travelling the word and spreading the news so as to create uniformed thought at a single time creating powerful rejuvenating energy for the doctor. The only thing it didn't explain was how he integrated with the satellites but it was established in the episode beforehand of their incredible communication in which the master abused for his hypnotic abilities.                          





Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@IamTheDoctorBasicallyRun 'The Parting of the Ways' - Rose glows yellow and deflects a Dalek shot.

He could have done without the hovering, but I was fine with the rest of it. It's a Series finale. It's allowed to be dramatic.


PeterThompson
PeterThompson

@A Friend of the Ood The crack part is weird because it said that it was pure time energy so anything it touched would never have existed. What I presume happened is that the tardis exploded and caused cracks in time, the tardis being the center of the cracks thus how the doctor was able to take a bit of the tardis out from a crack. However possibly the explosion created more cracks not in general basically the universe became unstable, meaning some could be created as bridges from one world to another in a sense. It was roughly explained some did lead to others and some led to silence, but it was never really explained why.

As to Amy forgetting Rory I'm sure it was mentioned that because she was a time traveller she was able to remember the clerics but she couldn't remember Rory because of how close she was, how personal he was to her. The clerics weren't part of her life really. How this works I don't know.

I think the arc works in general but there are some things that aren't fully explained. Sometimes there is a feeling things were added later on

whaaaaaaat
whaaaaaaat

@Ollie Walton Harrod @whaaaaaaat @A Friend of the Ood I know right! but, to answer your last question, The Moment let them get in to the very time locked event (The Last Great Time War) and cancel all the paradox. And the general result of the Day of The Doctor is all doctors except #11 AND one tiny human forget their efforts to save Gallifrey. That seems unfair to me. I admire Moffat's works, his boldness in putting a complicated arc. I guess Moffat's work is for those who doesn't mind all details of law of the universe. So, I just forget all my Physics studies for 4 years in college to get on with Moffat's explanation of the plot holes. I'm fine, really. Really, really fine.


A Friend of the Ood
A Friend of the Ood

@Ollie Walton Harrod @whaaaaaaat @A Friend of the Ood 

The Name of the Doctor plot hole is one that really annoyed me too, and I have no answer for that one. But I can help with some others:

1. War and Ten don't remember because the time lines were out of sync and only the last incarnation can remember.

2. It wasn't explained, but my theory is that they didn't know they were saving Gallifrey. The TARDIS took them there ("I always take you where you need to go").


3. He thinks he's not going to regenerate because he used all of his natural regenerations. He didn't know he was going to get more regenerations.


4. He wouldn't have to be doing that all the time, just once in every incarnation.


5. It isn't just meeting yourself, it's touching. Rose couldn't hold the younger version of herself because it was a paradox. Seeing her younger self was okay.

A Friend of the Ood
A Friend of the Ood

@davbart92663 @A Friend of the Ood He has used time travel as a plot a lot, but that isn't using the TARDIS as a weapon. Also, it makes sense that there would be complicated events involving time, he's a time traveler!

The conversation with Rory was done with a vortex manipulator, which seems to be easier to control than a TARDIS. The solution to Day of the Doctor wasn't time travel, it was putting Gallifrey in a pocket universe. 

"Timey wimey" plots are great as long as they make sense. Should every episode have the same "TARDIS arrives, something's wrong, the Doctor saves everyone, TARDIS leaves" plot? That gets boring after a while.

Andrew13112001
Andrew13112001

@davbart92663 @Malohkeh This is where everyone is getting confused.Gallifrey was ALWAYS saved.The Tenth and Eleven along with all his faces were here ALL THE TIME it happend.He just tought he destroyed it.But of course,how War and 10 forgott meeting 11,so the first 8 forgott meeting them.This also clears another problem.Some say that if 12 was there,why doesn't 11 know he's not gonna die?Well,10 forgott meeting 11,so 11 just forgott calling 12 for help.






Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@davbart92663 Thank you for pointing out how Moffat leaves so many questions, and inconsistencies. Because barely anyone seems to pick up on that, and it really annoys me too.

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@A Friend of the Ood @davbart92663 not to hate you personally, but could people please stop using the words TIMEY WIMEY!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was used once as a simple name. Then referred to again, for 'The Day of the Doctor'. And now everyone seems to be saying it and it is not an excuse for a plot hole. It's just annoying.

davbart92663
davbart92663

@A Friend of the Ood @davbart92663 The solution to Day of the Doctor wasn't the pocket universe. It was using the Sonic Screwdriver to create the calculation over 1,000+ years, not once but twice. Then calling 13 Doctors together to execute the plan. Add to that the time-phone and ending with Tom Baker...I just see poor writing. I want to say I thought DotD was the best Who episode I've ever seen, a perfect fanboy experience.


PeterThompson
PeterThompson

@Andrew13112001 Exactly. It can be a little confusing at first but simply the doctor always saved Gallifrey but technically he saved it in the future due to the timelines not being synced he wasn't able to remember it.

That means 9 and 10 still went through the ordeal of thinking they had destroyed it so it doesn't really change what already happened. 

The timelines not being synced also explains the events of Time of Doctor - the message for example spread right across the Universe in all of time and space thus being the oldest message ever, couldn't be heard by the doctor because he hadn't saved Gallifrey yet and so wouldn't hear the message until he had with everything then getting synced up properly.