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Who Mysteries: What Happened to the Kovarian Chapter?

Doctor-Who--Wedding-of-River-Song-trailer--(3)One of the loose ends not fully addressed in The Time of the Doctor was, what happened to the villainous Madame Kovarian played by Frances Barber?

We knew that Kovarian’s Chapter “broke away” from the Church and attempted to prevent the 11th Doctor reaching Trenzalore by killing him earlier in his timeline. They, of course, failed and Kovarian met her demise in The Wedding of River Song. However, this occurred in an aborted timeline, so what fate befell them in the current timeline?

Steven Moffat is posed the question in the latest issue of DWM and explains that the Chapter is definitely still out there and they could return, although it might not be for a while.

He says: “Kovarian, logically, is still alive. The whereabouts remain a terrible mystery. Will she return to menace the Doctor again? Will she ever resume her once happy marriage with Tasha Lem (just a thought, but imagine the domestics!). Perhaps.”

He adds: “But let’s be honest: if Amy Pond, River Song, and a two-thousand-year-old Centurian who blows up Cyber fleets for emphasis were all pissed off with you at once, you might stay quiet for a bit.”

Step back in time...

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109 comments
lukashcartoon
lukashcartoon

The thing was though, The Silence told Rory, if he died in this time line, he was dead.  Why wouldn't that apply with her?

Lord of Time declares war on the moon
Lord of Time declares war on the moon

Moffat made it look like some of the monsters are no longer important, But the kovarians still want to prevent the return of the timelords, also the doctor never died on trenzalore, means the great intelligence still exists!

Liana21
Liana21

Maybe she could ally with The Master, if he returns

Polyphase
Polyphase

I hope she's lost in E Space along with the silence, Never to be seen again

Strontium
Strontium

Oh nooo... Just finish it off for goodness sake.. I enjoyed it but this is going to drag it out now.

Note: I may end up changing my opinion on this by tomorrow!

MowTheFrontLawn
MowTheFrontLawn

Whoa, is the Madame Kovarian/Tasha Lem marriage canon?  Or was Moffat just joking?  Because I missed any references to a relationship/homosexuality between the two characters.

PaddyB
PaddyB

Was Amy's inability to have children a tragic side-effect of her unusual situation in giving birth to Melody or was it an unduly nasty intention of Kovarian's?

Gallifreyfalls1
Gallifreyfalls1

Kovarian wanted the doctor dead so he could not reach trenzalore and release the timelords again,she could return in trying to prevent the doctor finding gallifrey maybe with the master as well

Ninjauthor
Ninjauthor

as far as she and her sect are concerned they've got the job done successfully and killed the doctor so now I guess early retirement

The Finn
The Finn

Good to keep things open.

 Notsosmartguy Will Kill the Moon
Notsosmartguy Will Kill the Moon

I personally feel she was one of moffat's weaker characters (awesome actress though) but if he has plans to explore her more I'd be cool with it.

ahunter8056
ahunter8056

To be honest, I don't think that Kovarian should make an appearance again. I feel that her story is done. The whole point of her trying to kill The Doctor was to prevent him reaching Trenzalore. However, now that he has not only reached Trenzlore, but moved past it, there would be no reason for her to be still trying to kill The Doctor.

OncomingStorm in a Brownoat with a stake
OncomingStorm in a Brownoat with a stake

Is he really hinting at continuing a story arc into series 8 that he started almost three whole years ago? Please don't. Please can we just have a self-contained series arc for once, something where we don't have to watch for four years to understand what's going on. 

Chronos the Fannibal
Chronos the Fannibal

I wish that they just filmed a scene where Kovarian is held at the Stormcage prison, perhaps River or the doctor exchanging a few words with her


Antee991166
Antee991166

Personally I feel that her story is done and if she does return it would have to be for a different reason.

shyx111
shyx111

Tasha Lem and Madame Kovarian together and as we saw, Tasha fancied the Doctor... now, this is interesting! XD

Andrew_Swallow
Andrew_Swallow

Does the Chapter still have time travel?


The attack on the Doctor by the Silence seems very, very complicated.  I suspect that the Doctor hijacked their plan in some way to create River Song and to reprogram her not to kill him.

Kylephantom4
Kylephantom4

Maybe, she could return, but lets wait a while, I want to give that long story arc a nice rest and we can go back to the loose ends later, right now lets focus on finding gallifrey

VortexDan
VortexDan

But she comes back every time Moffat pulls  another strong, sassy female out of his box of infinitely overdone archetypes. I mean the woman they revealed for S8 is basically Kovarian without the Eyebatch. Maybe we can get her, Tasha, River, the new lady, and Amy in a room and cause ALL OF SEXISM TO VANISH WITH THE POWER OF MINISKIRTS AND FLIRTING

Gallifreyfalls1
Gallifreyfalls1

I agree a lot,I'd love to see kovarian trying to stop the return of the timelords sometime

Gallifreyfalls1
Gallifreyfalls1

Maybe yes to prevent gallifrey returning,after all she wanted the timelords to not return on trenzalore

JordanMCculloch
JordanMCculloch

@PaddyB  No, it's not that she couldn't have children its she didn't want to have anymore childrne


ConnorWhite
ConnorWhite

@Ninjauthor  Another possibility is that they are angry at the doctor because he foiled their plan, so now want revenge instead of to complete their original task.

PaddyB
PaddyB

@Ninjauthor Presumably they would realise that they hadn't killed the Doctor as soon as they returned to their own timeline and saw that the events at Trenzalore were not rewritten.

Angie Whodini just bought a star system
Angie Whodini just bought a star system

@ahunter8056  except that the whole point of him not reaching Trenzalore was that the Time Lords would never return. If the Doctor is crucial to helping them return in the future, she would have a reason to step out of the shadows.

MeglosProductions
MeglosProductions

@TheOncomingStorm I loved the multi-series story arc and loved how everything was tied up brilliantly in Time of the doctor. Then, again it doesn't exactly appeal to casual viewers very much, so I would like a series long story arc for a change.

TheOncomingHurricane
TheOncomingHurricane

@VortexDan  We know she's 'a powerful out of this world character with a dark secret.' And she's a banker. Yes, that's totally enough to say she's basically Kovarian without the eyepatch. It's incredibly vague. And WTF do miniskirts have to do with anything, it was only Amy that wore them and that was because KAREN GILLAN wanted to. So if you have a problem with that, you are slut-shaming her, which would make you look like the sexist for the second time in this thread. Funny that.







Zakk Williams
Zakk Williams

@VortexDan  For your information, some women DO wear miniskirts and flirt. If you think that's sexism then you have a serious problem. And actually Moffat tends to write independent women, what is wrong with that? 

supermoff is on the Orient Express...in space!
supermoff is on the Orient Express...in space!

@VortexDan  Every time someone mentions "sexism" with Moffat, I just ignore that opinion altogether. It's getting ridiculous now. It's completely unfounded. And, by the way, Ms. Delphox is a character created by Stephen Thompson, not Moffat. Stop making a complete fool of yourself.

ConnorWhite
ConnorWhite

@JordanMCculloch @PaddyB  The quote 'What ever they did to me on demons run, it means I can never have kids' implies that they did something to make her not be able to have children. Then in the sketch with Brian Williams, Amy's adopted son visits him. 

blueboxgirl
blueboxgirl

@JordanMCculloch @PaddyB  actually I'm pretty sure she couldn't have kids. The reason she split with Rory is because she knew he wanted kids and tried to push him away to give him the chance to have kids with someone else.

VortexDan
VortexDan

@supermoff @VortexDan  It's not unfounded, and I'm sorry you won't critically analyze the show both for what it does right and wrong. And she still falls into the exact same mold the majority of moffat's major women are cast from

Liana21
Liana21

It's Moffat, I'm not sure if you can trust on him

Malohkeh
Malohkeh

@VortexDan @Zakk Williams  Seriously, if that's he only thing you can see about such varied characters, the problem is you, not Moffat. Oh, and if being partially defined by a relationship with the doctor is your only criteria, that covers just about every Doctor Who character ever. Oh, and RTD specifically said he never needed to change Moffat's scripts.




VortexDan
VortexDan

@Malohkeh @VortexDan @Zakk Williams  I don't include the RTD moffat characters because they had the benefit of someone else being in charge. But the Moffat era women tend to not be varied and exist purely for the Doctor

Malohkeh
Malohkeh

@VortexDan @Zakk WilliamsIf you can't distinguish between the traits of such varied characters as Amy, River, Clara, Sally, Miss Evangelista, Llorna Bucket, Madame de Pompadour, and various other women he's written, it's your fault, not his.

Zakk Williams
Zakk Williams

@VortexDan @Zakk Williams Are you really saying that Kovarian and River are identical characters? Sorry but I can't buy that. Sure, Moffat's female characters tend to have strong personalities, but that's all they have in common. 

TheOncomingHurricane
TheOncomingHurricane

@VortexDan @supermoff  So, just to check - you're asking us to  analyse the show for what it does right or wrong, okay. You've made a pre-judgement on a character that Moffat hasn't written or created based on stereotypes (which largely exist in your own head) and being called on that is apparently not being critical of what the show does wrong, despite the fact she's you know, yet to appear on a screen. Uh-huh.  



I'm sorry you have a condition that seems to result in talking out of the wrong orifice, perhaps you should get that seen to? 

And she still falls into the exact same mold the majority of moffat's major women are cast from 

Cast from? So you're saying Karen Gillan, Jenna Coleman, Alex Kingston, Neve McIntosh etc.  all fit into some sort of mould? Wow, that would make you quite the sexist. The irony!










 Notsosmartguy Will Kill the Moon
Notsosmartguy Will Kill the Moon

What do you mean "critically analyze"? It's doctor who not citizen Kane. I swear this fan base takes this show way too seriously. Nothing moffat does ever pleases you whiny*** fan rats. It's a show full of awesome high concept adventures I expect nothing more nothing less. While whovians aren't know where near the worst fan base they definitely feel the most ungrateful.

supermoff is on the Orient Express...in space!
supermoff is on the Orient Express...in space!

@VortexDan @supermoff  I do critically analyse the show for what it gets right and wrong, but I simply feel as if the show has been getting very little wrong since 2010, and has been getting nearly everything absolutely spot on. And one of the thing it has done brilliantly is its characters. 

supermoff is on the Orient Express...in space!
supermoff is on the Orient Express...in space!

@VortexDan @Notsosmartguy the Superior Venom It's just the same old drivel arguments and one-sided analysis based on fake "quotes" never said by Moffat, stating that he's sexist, ableist,  agist, every -ist in the book, circling tirelessly around the internet, and complete mis-interpretations of his actions. These arguments are generated by angry people desperate to find a way to hate Moffat, who usually lack any credible argument against him, and represent an incredibly small minority of the fanbase. The majority of fans see sense that Moffat is not sexist, and his characters are fleshed out, wonderfully developed, and very different.