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Series 1-7 Face-Off Results: Everything Else (Episodes 1-8)

Across March and April Doctor Who TV pitted all the revival episodes so far against each other and asked you to vote on each. We’ve revealed your choices for both the Dream and Nightmare Run, now to wrap up it’s time to look at everything inbetween.

Catch-up on other articles:

Now join Mark McCullough as he examines the first half of episodes in the list.

NB: Having already looked at first and last place in each of the episode categories, there is no point in talking about them again. Instead I will focus on the five episodes which make up the middle of each set of results. Also, this time we have the percentage splits for each of the episodes so we can see how certain episodes fared. So without further ado:

Episode One

autons-roseAs previously revealed, The Eleventh Hour was our expected winner and as you can see, it won quite easily in the end taking a large percentage of the vote. Second place doesn’t surprise me as the episode featured the strangest opening to a series yet. The Doctor’s ‘death’ and slight change of format was always going to be well received. Rose, the first episode of the revival was always going to fare well given its nostalgic value. I’m sad to see Partners in Crime occupy the middle position; it is an episode which I love for being fun and a perfect re-introduction for Donna’s character. Asylum of the Daleks is one which I have seen split the fandom, as such it was probably never going to much better than what it has. Smith & Jones was also a fantastic opener which managed to introduce a lot of strong ideas very well. As the introduction of one of my favourite companion, I love it. And finally New Earth, as discussed in the Nightmare Run section is more than deserving to be last. For all the episodes here however the competition was stiff and with The Eleventh Hour doing so well, the results are probably not reflective of how the community would rate openers excluding it.

Episode Two

caecilius-the-fires-of-pompeiiThis section was won by Day of the Moon, which beat the episode which many seemed to think would take the win here. The Fires of Pompeii is a widely praised episode and deserved so, featuring a narrative which takes place around the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius; it is packed with wonderfully poignant moments. Donna’s pleas for the Doctor to help at least one person were truly heart-breaking. Tooth and Claw appears to have a much larger following than I would have thought. Don’t get me wrong, I find it to be an excellent episode; it’s just that I find it has a lot less to offer than some of the others on this list. The same could be said for The Shakespeare Code, although that notably has much less of a share of the vote. The End of the World is an episode which I love, so again I’m a little disappointed to see it take up the middle spot on the list. Making up the rear of the list we have Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and The Beast Below. Both of these if find to be wonderful enjoyable episodes and both have a lot going for them. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, has the wonderful gang and The Beast Below is packed with imagery and character foils.

Episode Three

Planet of the OodAs revealed in the Dream Run list, School Reunion was the communities preferred episode three. The competition in this set of episodes was actually pretty strong with the wonderfully poignant Planet of the Ood taking up second place in the list, and deservedly so. A Town Called Mercy comes next with a solid share of the vote. As part of the block-buster of the week format of the first part of series seven, Doctor Who’s Western explored the depths of the Doctor’s character and how far he would go. I am delighted to see Gridlock so high up the list, an episode which I find to be criminally underrated. It’s story id relatively simple yet it is packed with emotional moments, especially in that final scene where the Doctor talks about Gallifrey. Mark Gatiss makes up two of the bottom three episodes. The Unquiet dead probably finds itself as a victim to tough competition, whereas Victory of the Daleks is a victim of the production team featuring the much maligned new Dalek design. The Curse of the Black Spot was never in any danger of coming anywhere other than last. Fittingly it is the episode featuring the wonderful Elisabeth Sladen which tops the poll.

Episode 4

myles-girl-in-the-fireplaceIn this list we have the tightest battle for the top spot. As you can see, The Doctor’s Wife and The Girl in the Fireplace were separated only by 0.76%. In reality, either of the two episodes more than deserved to win the section and make the Dream Run. I’d suspect they both would have only they are the same episode number. Both stories feature a strong romantic element and both are considered classics. Lagging quite far behind the leading duo is The Time of Angels, a fantastic episode featuring one of the best ‘Moffat Tricks’ I have seen. Who can honestly say the noticed the one headed statues on first viewing? After this there is another large dip in percentage votes for the final four on the list. With Helen Raynor occupying the bottom spot, I’m happy to see her other offering in fourth. The Power of Three and the Aliens of London are so close that they are practically tied. This list represents a case of an episode which some offerings are considered to be far superior to others.

Episode Five

Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of SteelThe list of episode for the fifth outing of the series features mostly the second parts of episodes. The outright winner is the Pond’s swansong, The Angels Take Manhattan taking over double the amount of votes. Unsurprisingly episodes which had their first part in the previous poll all faired very similarly. Flesh and Stone comfortably takes second place despite its decision to feature the Weeping Angels moving. Rise of the Cybermen makes up third place on this list. As the first episode to feature one of Doctor Who’s iconic monsters. That said, it doesn’t feature them for very long as they only make an appearance just before the cliff-hanger. The setting of the parallel Earth is also a wonderful idea. Helen Raynor’s episodes again take positions four and seven which is unsurprising. World War Three does slightly better than its predecessor and The Rebel Flesh completes the line-up in second last place. Again the competition in this set is quite good so some episode are probably slightly lower than they deserve.

Episode Six

The Doctor's DaughterThis one features the episode with the largest percentage of the vote in a single poll so far. Robert Shearman’s Dalek, take a hugely impressive share of the vote. Thinking about it, of course it was going to win by a stretch. I really can’t praise the episode enough. Second place surprises me if I’m honest, I do love The Bells of Saint John, I just didn’t realise everyone else did too. The Doctor’s Daughter in third place is also a bit of a surprise; perhaps it should have been a little higher. The narrative was incredibly intelligent and kept the viewer guessing right until the end. The Vampires of Venice also did better than what I thought it would. I quite like all the episodes in this category, and am particularly fond of both The Age of Steel and The Almost People as I tend enjoy two-parters slightly more. As with quite a lot of the poll results on this results page, the bottom few episodes are all very close, but in this case the scores are slightly exaggerated due to the huge success of Dalek.

Episode Seven

Doctor-Who-Episode-Amy's-Choice-(7)I’ll admit, when I wrote the segment on the Dream Run, I had totally forgotten that Amy’s Choice was an episode seven. I stand by the praise I gave to our winner, A Good Man Goes to War. But I must admit that I think Amy’s Choice deserved it more, and it didn’t even come close. A wonderful concept for an episode made even better by an exemplary performance by Toby Jones as the Dream Lord. The Unicorn and the Wasp, has also done quite well here taking a respectable portion of the vote. A fun episode featuring Agatha Christie was probably always going to do so. The Rings of Akhaten has always seemed to be a divisive episode with some loving it, this meant it was always going to get a reasonable share of the vote and I for one am glad it did. The music and the speeches made the episode for me. 42 is another of those episodes I find to be underrated, yet it does quite well here, given the competition in this section. The last two episodes on the list are certainly deserving of their place, whilst not bad as such, they are nowhere near as good as the rest.

Episode Eight

tennant-watch-human-natureFor me this was always going to be one of the toughest polls to make a decision on, featuring the first part of three of my favourite two-parters. Evidently the majority agree with me as all three make up the top three of this list. Silence in the Library takes the majority of the vote winning by a considerable margin. Second is Human Nature, the episode where the Doctor becomes human and one of my all-time favourite stories. The Impossible Planet pits the Doctor against the devil and is perhaps one of the tensest stories in the history of the show. Let’s Kill Hitler is not my cup of tea as an episode, I really don’t like it for numerous reasons. Therefore I’m quite sad that the wonderful Father’s Day loses out to it here. If you had an opportunity to change time, would you? That’s what Father’s Day explores so well, depicting the consequences of such a change. Cold War attempts to do what Dalek did, but falls terribly flat, perhaps that’s why it did so badly, people comparing the two. Completing the list is The Hungry Earth with the lowest vote so far.

Join us for the conclusion tomorrow.

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183 comments
The Finn
The Finn

Pretty much as expected!

bringmeknitting
bringmeknitting

Genuinely shocked to see "Father's Day" got so few votes. Not only the most moving Doctor Who episode I've ever seen but one of the poignant dramas full stop. 

ahunter8056
ahunter8056

Again, the author shows his bias for the Moffat era. First of all, his claim that the reason 'Rose' fared high on the list is due to nostalgia is wrong. Yes, nostalgia is a factor, but it's also a damn good episode, needing to reintroduce a 21st century audience to Doctor Who, and it definitely worked. When trying to get someone into Doctor Who, this is the one and only episode you need to start with. That's the reason why it got plenty of votes. Secondly, the author is surprised that 'Tooth And Claw' got so many votes. Really? Does he not realise that 'Tooth & Claw' is generally known a brilliant episode, and one of the best of RTD's era? 


I am genuinely surprised that 'The Unicorn And The Wasp' did so well though. Personally I think it's a poor episode that I expected at the bottom.



TheMysticalFez
TheMysticalFez

Desperately wanted Human Nature/Family of Blood to win at least one. The two best episodes of new who. I'll take second though.

DW_girl
DW_girl

I'm glad 'Rose', 'Tooth and Claw', 'Planet of the Ood', 'The Doctor's Daughter', 'The Unicorn and the Wasp' and 'The Impossible Planet' did so well considering the competition. These are all under-rated, or even ignored, gems, and I'm surprised of their high rankings. 

Out of the ones that got 1st place, I voted for The Eleventh Hour, School Reunion, The Doctor's Wife, The Angels Take Manhattan and Dalek, which all got their well-deserved places. The others I voted for which didn't get 1st are: The Fires of Pompeii (came in close second so I'm glad of that); Amy's Choice (also came in second) and Father's Day (a shocking 3rd to last place for this one- An episode which makes my top 10 favourite Doctor Who episodes of all time.) So, I'm mostly pleased with the results, but a bit disappointed in the low placing of Father's Day (How on earth did 'Let's Kill Hitler' beat it?)

TheElusiveWhovian
TheElusiveWhovian

Dream Run:

1. The Eleventh Hour (brilliant intro to a new era)

2. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (not high art, but a fun little episode)

3. The Unquiet Dead AND School Reunion (tied - one was an atmospheric period piece, the other a heartfelt yet entertaining story)

4. The Doctor's Wife (Do I need to explain?)

5. Flesh & Stone (no stand-outs in particular, but this one is best)

6. Dalek (scary, action-packed return)

7. 42 (underrated gem - auxhillarating)

8. The Impossible Planet (base-under-siege done right)

9. The Satan Pit (this choice was hard)

10. The Doctor Dances (where to start)

11. Turn Left (depressing - my cup of tea)

12. The Pandorica Opens (epic in scale)

13. The Big Bang (a satisfying conclusion)

RTD Special. The Waters of Mars (chilling)

Moff Special. A Christmas Carol (heartfelt)

The Moment
The Moment

All the episodes I voted for where all in the top 3 :D



JamesStroud
JamesStroud

How School Reunion and The Angels Take Manhatten were so far ahead I will never know. School reunion wasn't actually that good, the return of Sarah Jane didn't outweigh the poor story, and TATM was my least favourite of a bad bunch, seriously don't know how it got above good episodes like World War 3 and The Poison Sky, let alone won it. And I am pleased to see that the margin between the Doctor's Wife and The Girl in THe Fireplace was so slim. The Doctor's wife to me is good, but utterly overrated, and the Girl In The Fireplace is the best episode of Doctor Who I've seen so far. I'm surprised tBoSJ beat the Doctor's Daughter, I though that would be a clear winner, and I'm also surprised that AGMGTW was that high... Wasn't that good... I agree with the writer that Amy's Choice definitely deserved the win that poll. Finally, I am deeply saddened to see Father's Day so low. I understand that many people hate Rose's character, and this was really an exploration of it, but the story and characterisation of that episode were utterly fantastic to me. Roll on tomorrow

Liana21
Liana21

I'm a sort of proud that my favourite episode got win with a high percentage.

Homer Jay Simpson
Homer Jay Simpson

My ideal Episode 7 would have had to have been The Rings of Akhaten. It's a wonderful story, completely underrated.

chinnysandshoes
chinnysandshoes

The Angels Take Manhattan won by a large margin. Oh well. It's one of my least favourite episodes of all time. The Statue of Liberty as an Angel??? As soon as that happened, I burst out laughing and the Angels have ceased being terrifying for me ever since. Until that point, I would shiver at the Angels. Sigh. What a ludicrous way to ruin THE iconic villain of New Who.

Romanadvoratrelundar
Romanadvoratrelundar

My choices:

1. The Eleventh Hour (1st) - I'm really surprised it won by that much, and I'm proud. I remember when it first aired, I loved Eleven but everyone else "hated" him and it broke my heart. Also disappointed to see Smith and Jones so low, I think it's a great fast-paced story.


2. The Fires of Pompeii (2nd) - by far one of the best Donna stories. Day of the Moon was totally enchanting the first time I watched it though, it also deserved the win.

3. The Curse of the Black Spot (7th) - yeah yeah, I know. But to be honest, I didn't really like any of the 3s. I especially dislike the Ood (sorry), I think they're gross and don't get why everyone's obsessed with them. I would have put School Reunion second though, and I don't think Gridlock is as bad as people say.

4. The Doctor's Wife (1st) - hands down, perfect. My second favourite episode of New Who, not counting The Day of the Doctor. The Girl in the Fireplace is also brilliant though.

5. Flesh and Stone (2nd) - the first ever episode I watched over and over and over. I know it inside and out and is still entertaining. I don't mind The Angels Take Manhattan (the "plot holes" don't bother me) but I think there were better choices on that list.

6. The Doctor's Daughter (3rd) - I am gobsmacked it fared so well. Honestly, I thought I was the only Whovian on the Earth who absolutely, completely and ridiculously adored this story. If you voted for it please tell me who you are, I want to hug you!

7. The Unicorn and the Wasp (3rd) - this was a hard one, I also think Amy's Choice and The Rings of Akhaten are fantastic stories. I don't really think A Good Man Goes to War should have won, it felt more like an excuse to tie up loose ends then an actual story.

8. Human Nature (2nd) - don't get me wrong, Silence in the Library was good, but Human Nature is something else. I'm also disappointed to see Father's Day forgotten, I thought it should have at least beaten Let's Kill Hitler (although I also love that episode).

Feel free to agree/disagree, as long as you are respectful and state why. I am always interested to compare my opinions with others.


dalekdestroyer
dalekdestroyer

I agree with most of these, but some of them [even though there good episodes] should be in number 2. With episode 8, I think that the 'Hungry Earth' did an okay job of bringing back the Silurians. And I loved in 'Cold War' how they brought back the long missed Ice Warriors, I didn't really like 'Father's Day' that much. And 'Let's Kill Hitler' should have a lower rating. 'The Impossible Planet' 'Human Nature' and 'Silence in the Library were all great episodes. And i'm glad they got top 3.

TheNightmareChild will ascertain its true nature
TheNightmareChild will ascertain its true nature

Looking at these results, there's too much to really talk about.  So I will limit myself to my two biggest observations: 1. The Lazarus Experiment is underrated, and 2. Let's Kill Hitler deserves to be so much lower.  At the very least, it has no business being above Father's Day.  Now that episode did character development right!

Mr 11
Mr 11

My overview:

Episode 1: ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS CAM BELOW PARTNERS IN CRIME AND ROSE.............ARE YOU KIDDING???!!! Glad to see TEH and TIA do so well but seriously...

Episode 2: Good to see Tooth and Claw, Day of the moon and Fires of Pompeii doing well but wanted DOAS and TSC do better.

Episode 3: Surprised and pleased to see a jolt in popularity for POTO but annoyed TUD is lower. Otherwise nothing to say.

Episode 4: Wish TPOT was higher but all in all happy with this.

Episode 5: Perfect

Episode 6: Wish TBOSJ won

Episode 7: All the good stories at towards the top, I'm liking it.

Episode 8: Lots of good episodes towards the top end but am heartbroken to see Father's Day so low!

MrRazza, WANTED: A Lord of Thyme
MrRazza, WANTED: A Lord of Thyme

So my Dream Run came: 4th, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st. 

My Nightmare Run: 5th, 6th, 7th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 4th, 4th. 

I always thought my views actually differed from the fanbase more than that,

MrRazza, WANTED: A Lord of Thyme
MrRazza, WANTED: A Lord of Thyme

The Girl in the Fireplace was well and truly robbed there. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, for me it would have been a much more deserving winner than the Doctor's Wife.

Deus_Ex_Machina
Deus_Ex_Machina

"The Angels Take Manhatten" received more than twice as many votes as its closest rival "Flesh and Stone"? Who... What... How? It's not a good episode, how did this happen?

Aside from that, no big surprises. I'm a little sad to see "The Lazarus Experiment" so low after that brilliant article posted about it yesterday, but such is life. And seeing how close "The Girl in the Fireplace" was to beating out "The Doctor's Wife" makes me even more annoyed that it lost.

SirTrey
SirTrey

@bringmeknitting I'm less surprised when I look at its competition.  I think a lot of people genuinely loved that episode but just voted elsewhere; it's difficult for a single episode to compete against a two-parter because there's a tendency to innately rate both of the episodes together and/or for memory to blur what's in part one and what's in part two.


For me, Silence in the Library is fascinating, Human Nature contains what I'd call David Tennant's best acting of his entire Doctor Who run, Impossible Planet is what finally sold me on Ten and Rose's relationship and Let's Kill Hitler an underrated (or at least over-hated), complex episode that, while not DW or Moffat's best, certainly isn't the worst in either.  But even as I type that I wonder how much of that was those first halves and how much was the second (reverse that for LKH).  It's...difficult.


I don't think many people at all would say they weren't moved by Father's Day.  It's an episode held dear...I'm not even a big fan of Rose by any stretch and that one gets me every time.  Those others are just huge.

SirTrey
SirTrey

@ahunter8056 I don't think it's all "Moffat bias"...I'm exactly that person you're talking about who wasn't into Doctor Who and was beginning my run through the series.  I'd seen Shakespeare Code earlier as an aside but didn't really remember much, it was a curiosity.  But last summer I resolved to work through the entirety of the series before the 50th.


And honestly?  If, back in 2005, I had decided to check out Doctor Who as a "new show" and watched 'Rose' as a debut, I probably wouldn't have come back.  For me it's a relatively rudimentary episode with an unmemorable villain, a conventional sidekick and a downright cheap look, visuals and special effects-wise.  For the record I was perfectly fine with the visuals and effects in 'The End of the World' and 'Aliens of London', it's not as if I'm some VFX-obsessed viewer, but that first episode looked distractingly bad IMO.  It wasn't until Aliens that I was really gripped by the series, and I'm obviously VERY glad I stuck with it.  But 'Rose' barely moved the needle.


Eccleston is charismatic and his talents certainly show through...for me though, not as much else really did.  And I think had 'Rose' and, say, 'Smith and Jones' been switched (obviously, control for tone and story purposes, but just those basic plot outlines) the episode wouldn't be nearly as well-remembered.  But it's the first Doctor Who people had seen in nine years, 16 as a weekly series, and for people who had loved it before New Who I think it's impossible to ignore that connection.


And if you're talking about bias, I'd like to see who thinks 'Tooth and Claw is "generally" a "brilliant" episode aside from the more dedicated of Ten's fans who have fond memories of he and Rose being together for the first time after his special. I'd go as far as to say it was easily the worst of Davies' episode twos...Shakespeare and Pompeii are truly, truly excellent works and End of the World picks things up nicely.  So I'm certainly surprised too.


We do agree about 'The Unicorn and the Wasp' though, so there's that lol

TheElusiveWhovian
TheElusiveWhovian

They did have some good competition. There seems to be some pretty fantastic episodes at this time in a series. But I am still slightly disappointed and surprised.

TheElusiveWhovian
TheElusiveWhovian

I too am shocked by the fact that LKH beat FD. Even though I did enjoy LKH, something was missing which gave it a mediocre feeling. Father's Day was a tear-jerking episode, with Rose at her best. I was on the edge of my seat when the Doctor seemingly died.

DW_girl
DW_girl

@Romanadvoratrelundar All the episodes you've listed are highly rated by me (except the rather weak 'Curse of the Black Spot'), and I too am disappointed by the low rating of Father's Day. I don't understand why Let's Kill Hitler (a widely moaned about episode) beat it; and even how A Good Man Goes to War came out on top for the 7th episode.

Amy says Peter Davison is the Thirteenth Doctor!
Amy says Peter Davison is the Thirteenth Doctor!

@Deus_Ex_Machina  "'The Angels Take Manhatten' received more than twice as many votes as its closest rival 'Flesh and Stone'? Who... What... How? It's not a good episode, how did this happen?"

- Because "recent episode favoritism" or "companion departure exemption" or whatever else excuse one wants to use in order to rationalize an episode that they don't like winning, because god forbid other people actually like the episode.

And the same goes for 'Let's Kill Hitler'. They didn't actually do much with Hitler, so clearly it is the worst episode of Doctor Who ever produced.




ahunter8056
ahunter8056

@SirTrey @ahunter8056  The Autons aren't a memorable villain? They're one of Doctor Who's most important villains. Conventional sidekick? I'm sorry, what? In the classic series, all the companions were there mostly just to get stuck and scream for The Doctor. Rose Tyler was the first companion who wasn't that, and who saved The Doctor, and not the other way round. If anything, she was as unconventional as you can get. Yes, now in 2014, the VFX of Series 1 look a little dated, but they really are nowhere near as bad as you make them out to be. In 2005, they looked brilliant.




As for people who believe 'Tooth & Claw' to be a brilliant episode, you only have to look on the internet to see how loved it is. For example, if you look at the poll results of the episode on Doctor Who Online, just under half of voters voted it 5/5. Just look at the episode comments in the episode thread on the Doctor Who Online Forum (responses both from 2006 and 2013). From what I've seen, most people consider it to be the best episode of Series 2. Personally I don't agree with that, but I still agree that it is a brilliant episode.












































TheElusiveWhovian
TheElusiveWhovian

It was a very close one, but I went with TDW because the villain was on the whole more satisfying and threatening. While some direction choices helped the Clockwork robots, I felt as though they had no evil in them, it was just the programming. House on the other hand played with his victims in a sadistic fashion, and was entertained by Amy and Rory's pain. Also, it put a new slant on the entire series, whilst respecting it, with the idea that the TARDIS stole the Doctor. Two excellent stories however.

DW_girl
DW_girl

I dont think there is a lot. @romanadvoratrelundar and I are in the minority of fans who really like that episode.

DW_girl
DW_girl

@Amy the Consulting Key Ring @Deus_Ex_MachinaTo be honest, I love 'The Angels Take Manhattan', and that isn't just because it's a recent episode or because Amy and Rory left. Amy and Rory's departure was a crucial part to the episode, and it was foreshadowed from the start, so when one is highly rating this episode, they must be taking into account the departure aswell (it's pretty difficult not to really). This 'recent episode favouritism' you keep talking about doesn't apply to me by the way. I love Moffat and his creative ideas, but RTD just pips it.


Romanadvoratrelundar
Romanadvoratrelundar

@Amy the Consulting Key Ring @Deus_Ex_Machina I take it you're being sarcastic with the last point, and I agree. I'm sick of people saying "it didn't have enough Hitler" or "it was really sexist". No, I don't think LKH is the best episode of Doctor Who ever produced, but it's hilarious, I love psychopathic River and I don't think it's sexist at all. Same goes for TATM, I really don't believe the "plot holes" are as bad and gaping as people say. The entire basis of our show is a plot hole. Accept it and move on.

SirTrey
SirTrey

@ahunter8056 @SirTreyFair enough, it just seemed initially stated as more of a "point of fact".


If there were any results I'd pull out as "surprising" for me, it would be in the second half.  Look, I know everyone and their grandmother absolutely adores Blink, and not without some very good reason.  But double the votes of both Vincent and the Doctor and Midnight (and way below the completely forgotten The Doctor Dances) is a bit surprising.


And for the life of me, it seems like all anyone ever votes on when it comes to The End of Time is the last five minutes, because the rest of that episode is a complete mess.

bluBob
bluBob

@ahunter8056 @bluBob@SirTreyIn fairness to Zoe... she didn't scream THAT often... and more often than not, she would wreck more than a few of the Doctor's enemies... with her brain. Hell, as often as she was screaming, she was chewing out the bad guys for their lack of intelligence.

ahunter8056
ahunter8056

@SirTrey @ahunter8056  Personally I'd agree that all of those episodes are better than 'Tooth & Claw', apart from 'School Reunion'. I'm just going off what I've seen a lot of people say on the internet.

bluBob
bluBob

@ahunter8056 @SirTrey Whoa there friend... not all the classic companions were there to scream and be rescued. I think the Zoe and Ace fans would have something to say about that....

SirTrey
SirTrey

@ahunter8056 @SirTreyI was coming at this from the perspective of that new viewer you mentioned, that is trying to get into Doctor Who in the 21st century.


    As a new viewer, I didn't know a damn thing about the Autons.  I'd never seen the classic series so that whole "what the companions did there" thing is meaningless.  And I guarantee a not insignificant percentage of viewers were, like myself, entirely new.  By 2005, we're used to a cute plucky sidekick helping out the main hero.  So for me, "one of Doctor Who's most important villains" and "in the classic series" didn't move the needle...it still doesn't do much for me now that I have more experience, but it definitely didn't then.


     And as for the VFX, as I said they looked just fine in the very next episode and later that season, the plastic stuff just looks REALLY fake for me.  I really didn't have a problem with the VFX anywhere else for the rest of the season.


     Many of those same polls also have Blink as the best episode in the entirety of Doctor Who.  Now, I still haven't seen the classic series so I can't judge personally, but I find it a little hard to believe that a show which had aired 28 seasons before the one with Blink didn't produce one episode better than that.  Blink is just more recent.


     Regarding Tooth and Claw, I have two responses.  One, just going by this poll Series 2 is at the bottom so the competition was lower.  And two, I don't like taking such a hard line very often, especially on anything subjective, but I'm gonna do it here...the idea that 'Tooth and Claw' is the best episode of that season is straight up wrong.  The Girl in the Fireplace, The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, School Reunion and The Christmas Invasion (if that counts for S2) are so far ahead that I can't attribute that kind of vote to anything but OMG TEN AND ROSE LOOK SO CUTE.  I'm not saying that very vocal fan/ship base is necessarily a bad thing, but you have to admit they've skewed numbers a bit.  And anything with cute Ten/Rose banter falls into that category.

OBVIOUSLY, I'm exaggerating with the reactions, but I'm genuinely baffled about any scenario that could result in that topping S2 polls.  Girl in the Fireplace specifically might (emphasis on might, but it should be in the ballpark) be the best episode in New Who, full stop.

DW_girl
DW_girl

Same here! It would be amazing!!

bluBob
bluBob

@DW_girl Probably still in the minority... but I really liked that episode as well. So, congratulations on having excellent taste.

Romanadvoratrelundar
Romanadvoratrelundar

@JamesStroud @DW_girl Now this is an opinion I respect. You're not nitpicking, but judging the episode on the whole and not blaming Moffat for everything. People don't get that sometimes it's not the writers fault, often its the directors, the actors and the editors that cause problems too... 

Romanadvoratrelundar
Romanadvoratrelundar

@DW_girl @Romanadvoratrelundar @Amy the Consulting Key Ring @Deus_Ex_Machina Exactly! The thing about Doctor Who is that if you want to do something clever and unpredictable then you have to bend the rules a little - because Whovians have already theorised everything under the sun within them. I get how Moffat thinks - why can't the Liberty be a weeping angel? Why can't Amy and Rory still live happily on Earth but still be permanently separated from the Doctor? Besides, it's not like and other writer in the entire history of the show hasn't ever written one "plot hole". Just because you haven't thought Moffat's plot through it doesn't mean it's bad...

DW_girl
DW_girl

Well at least your not one of those people hating on the Statue of Liberty concept. In my head, I get around the fact that it didnt move when Rory was on the roof because at least someone in New York will be looking at it at any one time (its the statue of liberty- a key monument). I dont think anything was too dramatic. It was dramatic (of course it would be- The Doctor's best friends have left him and he can never see them again), but to an acceptable level. Faultless episode in my opinion.

JamesStroud
JamesStroud

@DW_girl To me, the departure of Amy & Rory was over hyped, and the final reveal of how they were going to go was not as good as 90% of the theories that had previously been posted. So while watching it I was a little let down. Then the relationships between the characters, specifically The Doctor and River, River & her parents, and Amy & Rory, seemed at some points to be laboured and at others downright over the top. It's like they were trying to be dramatic in the situation, rather than have a truly dramatic situation happen. The idea of the "breeding grounds" was fantastic, truly brilliant, and the idea of the statue of liberty as an angel was brilliant (I have a minor niggle with the fact that it isn't made of stone, but i'll let it slide) but terribly underused. For the entirety of the scene where Rory was on the roof, are you seriously telling me he didn't blink? we saw how fast angels are in Blink, so it could easily have caught him, and I would have loved to have seen the consequences of being touched by such a large angel: maybe being sent back hundreds of years into the past? But instead it just stands there, doing nothing much. It was a useless addition in the end. And the final scene with the Ponds leaving was too over the top. If it hadn't have been made known that Amy & Rory were leaving that episode, it would have been a lot more dramatic, as I was thoroughly expecting an angel to find them in the graveyard as I knew that they had to leave the show, and then Matt's crying just seemed over the top. His tears in Time had a lot more pathos than here. Everything just seemed over done or underdone, and nothing just right

DW_girl
DW_girl

@Romanadvoratrelundar @Amy the Consulting Key Ring@Deus_Ex_MachinaOh, I agree. This site is full of people saying things along the lines of: "The Statue of Liberty thing is just silly so I will rate the episode really low", and "The Doctor could visit Amy and Rory easily!" No people, just no. How does one simple thing (Statue of Liberty), which can be explained for it's presence, and even if it can't, detract from the whole episode? And why can't people understand that if Amy and Rory's fate (in which the Doctor NEVER sees them again, because Amy said he never did, and told him to move on and not be alone) is written, published and read in a book, than it can't be changed, or it would create a huge paradox causing the destruction of New York? I think some people just like to pick out the tiniest little inconsistencies in order to have an excuse to hate on the way Moffat runs the show.

robdw
robdw

@Romanadvoratrelundar @Amy the Consulting Key Ring@Deus_Ex_Machina "It didn't have enough Hitler" might quickly become my favourite sentence.


Hitler himself didn't feature much, but the title's spot on - everyone was there to kill -a- Hitler. River had been trained to see the Doctor as Hitler, the Teselecta identified River Song as time and space's equivalent.