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Why the Cybermen should be Doctor Who’s best monster

Guest contributor Gary Kingston looks at the appeal of the metal menace.

cyberman-nightmare-in-silver-cybermen

As we all know the Cybermen have been around for a very long time, with their first appearance being in William Hartnell’s last story “The Tenth Planet” and their most recent being “Nightmare in Sliver” featuring Matt Smith’s Doctor (excluding their cameo in The Time of the Doctor). Obviously the fact that the Cybermen have been around so long proves that they are one of Doctor Who’s better monsters and there are a lot of reasons for that. I’m going to sum up the main ones why I think they are Doctor Who’s greatest monster and why I think they are better than the Daleks and other high ranking Doctor Who monsters. This is purely opinion based so if you disagree with me just write your thoughts in the comments. So without further ado, let’s begin.

cybermen-headsOne thing I really like about the Cybermen is that their design constantly evolves. Enemies like the Daleks, the Weeping Angels or the Ice Warriors stay the same for the most part, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but change is what makes Doctor Who such a unique TV show. Change is what makes the show great and always moving in a new direction. The same could be said for the Cybermen.

The design of the Cybermen has changed significantly over the years with the only constant similarity between the designs being the handle bars and the silver colour. Everyone has their own favourite designs but I personally like “The Tenth Planet” one and the “Earthshock” design. Why? Because they both remind the view that these creatures used to be human, especially “The Tenth Planet” design.

Which brings me to my next point. The thing that I think makes the Cybermen
 truly scary is the fact they used to be human 
(or Mondasians). These metal monstrosities 
used to be like us until they had their body 
parts replaced, their personalities destroyed
 and their emotions stolen from them. The
 real fear that comes is 
that they have had the things that essentially
 make us human stripped away and
 now they want to do the same to you. And that is 
truly terrifying.

cyber-conversion-age-of-steelI think that the Classic series 
didn’t really focus too much on the horror of Cyber conversion itself but “Rise of the Cybermen/ The Age of Steel” handled the concept very well. The factory scene in “Age of Steel” really is quite disturbing and shows both the physical and mental damage the Cybermen do to people. But by far the most effective scene of showing the human damage is where the Doctor talks to the damaged Cybermen. It’s a heart-wrenching scene where that poor women is begging for her partner and feeling so cold. That scene demonstrates perfectly what the Cybermen do and why they need to be stopped.

The reason that Cybermen stories work better than Dalek stories in my opinion are that Dalek stories are mostly forgettable like “Day of the Daleks” or “Planet of the Daleks” and don’t really do anything except show the Daleks for the most part. This is not to say that they are bad stories, they just don’t add anything significant. Every Cyberman story is unique and due to them not being as common as Daleks it really makes them shine (no pun intended) as villains.

nightmare-in-silver-pics-promo-(5)The Cybermen also have a great range of stories that are all very enjoyable and memorable. Stories like “Tomb of the Cybermen”, “The Invasion” and “Earthshock” are some of the best stories Doctor Who has ever produced. Every Classic Cyberman story is memorable mostly for the right reasons. The revived series has produced some decent Cybermen episodes but they haven’t really reached the standard of the Classic series (Really, trying to make James Cordon the Cyber-Controller?). Their most recent story “Nightmare in Silver” also received a very mixed reception. It still feels like we’re waiting for that definitive story in the modern era. Perhaps we’ll get one in the Capaldi era?

My personal favourite Cyberman stories are from the Patrick Troughton era. These include “Tomb of the Cybermen” and “The Invasion”. It’s a huge shame that “The Moonbase” and “The Wheel in Space” contain several missing episodes and hopefully one day they will be found.

So what do you guys think? Comment below if you’ve got anything to say on the Cybermen.

Step back in time...

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102 comments
chrisew
chrisew

The mistake they keep making with the Cybermen, and it's one that even Neil Gaiman made, is that they mistake making them more deadly, more robotic, with making them better and scarier. But what makes them frightening is their humanity, trapped within that shell. Their introduction in The Tenth Planet is chilling. They ruthlessly cut down those soldiers and take over a military base within minutes, and all the while they don't seem like much more than humans with a robotic boost. All that "upgrade" nonsense in Nightmare in Silver just made them so powerful as to be boring.

Lord Ravage
Lord Ravage

Cybermen are my favorite who villains, it's juts a shame they haven't had much luck with getting a good episode recently, they only seem to do well in small appearances like in series 5, whenever they are the main villain they are just there to be destroyed while the  Doctor and his companions are the main focus. I think Moffat should just do a two part cyber story and focus on them as much as the other characters. 

AztecsDaleksAndCavemen
AztecsDaleksAndCavemen

I just watched The Tomb of the Cybermen. I just wish so badly that there was a Cyberman story as innovative and brilliant in new Who.

Christopher Brown
Christopher Brown

The problem with the Cybermen, and why they'll never be the best villain, is exactly what you pointed out: that barely any of their stories after the original focused on the horror of people who sold their souls to become technological emotionless zombies, free of pain - instead, they were repurposed into being generic military drones, lame Dalek wannabes with stupid weaknesses and without the terrifying motivation. There are great stories to be told using the Cybermen as originally conceived, especially as humanity's relationship with technology moves forward - but really, how many of those can you do in a short span of a few years without them getting old? Aren't there just as many issues with dealing with emotions, rather than simply repressing them, to do stories on nowadays? The only way to re-invigorate the Cybermen and make them actually deserve their status as one of the greatest villains is to cut back on their appearances and drop the whole boring mighty-stomping-warrior angle - but that would mean diminishing their power levels and status as one of the most reliably re-appearing villains, and you'll forgive me if I lack faith that fan demand for that particular vision of the Cybermen which never actually worked out in reality with fade out anytime soon, because nostalgia and crap. And on a pedantic/story quality level: Day of the Daleks is fantastic! And you're completely leaving out all the great Dalek stories like Genesis, Revelation, Remembrance, and even Death in order to make your point. In comparison, Tomb of the Cybermen is racist and only really good because of the awesome set design and Patrick Troughton's performance. I can't comment on the rest of the stories from the '60s as they're still on the viewing list, but let's look at the rest of the Cyber-stories. Earthshock was good for reasons that had everything to do with being a well-made piece of entertainment and nothing to do with having the Cybermen in it or even being not-morally-repulsive (which it is), while Revenge, Attack, and Silver Nemesis are all various levels of suck. Just sayin' :D


MeglosProductions
MeglosProductions

I can't be the only one who loved Nightmare in silver, right?

LordRassilon
LordRassilon

I can;t agree that they are suprior, in level of 'threat', to The Daleks, but they are force ina nd of themselves. Really, while they are always 'upgrading', it's rare to see any cultural development. The Martians (Ice Warriors), are far more complicated; the Daleks evolve in culture, too; but the Cybemen, after the original Mondasian era, have no cultural development.


They care only about their survival, and really, many of the plot points don;t make sense. The Mondasian Cybermen needed the Earth for its energy, but why does an immortal species with no emotions want to convert all other humans (note, this doesn't usually include non-human humanoids) into their mechanised form?


They are a menace, only to Earth, and the Humanian Empire. 


Even the Daleks originated as humanoids, although many people tend to forget this. 


The Cybermen have little charm, and are easily foiled, because they are so locked into logical operation, and a singular imperative. Honestly, my votes for the best Cybermen stories are 'The Tenth Planet', 'Spare Parts', and 'the harvest', as these show the Cybermen as more than just drones.


I still haven't read Assimilation Squared, but that may also be a good place to explore their potential. I'd love to see the original, Mondasian Cybermen return at sone point, in place of the now ubiquitous Cybus model. I really dislike that while the modern Cybermen in the modern series (after Army of Ghosts) are supposed to be of the later-type Mobdasian group, they use the Cybus design for their casing, including the CYBUS LOGO.

Why would Cybermen replicate a logo on their casing? It has no significance to them, and is entirely illogical; except that is spares the BBC from making a new design, that appeals to viewers of the original stories. The first generation of Cybermen, to me, is far more eerie, and daunting, because you can still detect the human inside, and the halting voice patterns, and extended vowels, make their digitised speech more alien.


I would have thought that after a few thousand years, the boolean logic of a cyber-controller would have determined that war against other planets wasn't useful either, and simply continued to run a small, Cyber-Empire, that is of no threat to anyone else. Chilling, or no, the story elements are what tend to make the Cybermen less-appealing, as they don't actually have reasons for killing, or force-upgrading others.


The Daleks do so out of hate, swapping between destruction, and domination; but the Cyber Imperative is 'to survive', and if actions are making survival impossible, you;'d think that their entirely logical minds, free of all emotions, would find a different method to achieve that goal. (Simply ceasing to attack other worlds would best fulfil that.)

Strontium
Strontium

I agree with everything here.


Also, there are no survival problems with them. It is known that there are cyber legions everywhere, and they have many forms and evolve, etc., unlike daleks which have their continuity completely messed up now. Finally, they have cybershades, cybermats, cybermice, etc., which are so cool!

I also think that cybermen stories are generally written better. Out of 5 cybermen stories (where they are the main plot) in the modern era, there is not a single one I think is not particularly good (I'm not a fan of Nightmare in Silver, but it wasn't a bad episode, I just didn't like it that much), whereas with daleks there are 8 stories, 3 of which (all the 11th Doctor ones sadly, not saying I hate the entire era though. It includes Time but not Day) I disliked.


DrWhoGoesThere
DrWhoGoesThere

My personal favorite Cybermen design has to be the one that started with the Fifth Doctor and continued to the end of the classic series.  However, the others all have good things to be said about them too.

MrThorfan64
MrThorfan64

I think one of the best Cyber-stories is Spare Parts. It is an excellent origin story and I would highly recommend listening to it.

Master Michael Moon
Master Michael Moon

I do love the Cybermen, and to me, the original Tenth Planet design will always be the best because they looked so organic and fresh, and menacing. The stomping robot kind introduced in the RTD era had terrible development from the Series 2 finale onwards. I do actually like the most recent design introduced in Nightmare in Silver, but that episode was terrible. They need to build on being more like silent assassins and the new sound effect when they walk is really good. I do hope to see them return in Capaldi's tenure, but I say give them a rest until Series 9 and let a writer cook something really good up for them. All hail the Cybermen!


PaddyB
PaddyB

Also, the concept of the human brain beng cut out and inserted into a metal body is much more scary than the idea of cybernetic transplants gone too far. The POV conversion scene from the age of steel is brilliant.

PaddyB
PaddyB

I much prefer the cybus cybermen to the Mondas versions since in the classic series the cybermen were simply robotic aliens and therefore hard to differentiate from the daleks. The cybermen are far more scary when they are upgrading ordinary people on Earth into their ranks.

The_Major
The_Major

Cybermen have the potential be to our generation as the Daleks were to the post World War II generation. They appeal to modern fears of technology, pandemic and new world orders. I happen to think Rise/Age and Army/Doomsday were great and addressed these issues fairly well but there's still alot of untapped potential there, without repetition.

capaldi3699
capaldi3699

I was annoyed at nightmare in silver because I thought it could have been a two-parter like Neil Gaiman wanted

Moves Like Jagaroth
Moves Like Jagaroth

I agree to an extent and I think there's a certain inevitability that the two key enemies - Daleks and Cyberman - have reached a place where their very presence is seen to be enough to carry the story which it clearly isn't.  These enemies ought to be used very sparingly and their stories handled with even greater consideration.  Closing Time and Nightmare In Silver were awful dilutions to the cyber mythos.  Of the cyber stories I've seen only Tomb, Earthshock and the Age of Steel have any weight. 

awkward912
awkward912

Whatever Nightmare in Silver's weaknesses, now the Cybermen have been redesigned they are in a very strong position to star in the perfect Cyber-story they've been crying out for since 2005. They're menacing, chilling and surprising, and I'm hoping the Twelfth Doctor has a big showdown with them towards the end of series 8. In fact, I'd like to see Moffat himself take them on - their scenes in The Pandorica Opens suggest what great things he could do with them, given a proper shot.

gunslinger19
gunslinger19

i think, and this applies to both the cybermen and the daleks, that writers confuse a lack of emotion for a lack of character, individuality and intelligence. cybermen shouldnt be drones, they can have differing opinions and they can develop plans independant of their superiors in order to come up with ways of furthering the cyber/dalek cause. in the case of the cybermen, an episode in which some people actually choose to upgrade themselves would bean interesting idea. given how they are currently presented, being upgraded is pretty much unthinkable, even worse than death. why not remind the audience of the benefits of being upgraded? every cyberman works together while humans fight each other, love causes a lot of hate and despaur, why not rmeove it? i could see a heartbroken person wanting his emotions removed.

Whogasms
Whogasms

Cybermen are my favourite monster, and I personally think they are the scariest, and much scarier than the Daleks as they are more mobile. Viva la Cybermen!

DavidSJH
DavidSJH

Ever since they changed the design from Tenth Planet the cybermen have got worse, saying that the Patrick Troughton stories are fantastic. Nevertheless cybermen are living corpses they are zombies that's why they are scary in Tenth Planet you can see evidence of a humanoid figure under that cloth. And why did they have to make them human? Mondas was a perfectly good enough story! Bring back Kit Pedeler's idea I say!

12 jammy dodgers
12 jammy dodgers

Basically the cybermen are very similar to the borg from star trek next generation. In fact, I would hazard a guess that the writer who devised the borg is a Whovian ( apologies to STNg fans if this not the case). The terrifying aspect to them is that they want to make you like them. Personally, I think any enemy that forces a person to become like them is one of the most horrific concepts. The whole idea of what constitutes you as a person being 'deleted' and remade in someone else's idea of perfection strikes me as the stuff of nightmares! I totally agree that they have been drastically underused so far. Great article!

TonySimmons
TonySimmons

Day of the Daleks forgettable? Not half as forgettable as the ridiculous Closing Time, or as disappointing as Nightmare in Silver. Truth is the only decent Cyberman episode of the new series was Rise of the Cybermen. Sadly it was followed by Age of Steel which had a ridiculously convenient ending where they were defeated by a mobile phone. Nightmare in a Silver didn't make them scary again, yes there was a few more gadgets but they didn't return to the silent emotionless killers with creepy blank faces that they were in their early appearances. They were just a stooge to Matt Smith acting with himself and again were conviniently blown up by a handy planet busting bomb. Let's see a well planned two part story with a decent script to bring them back to their former glory. Won't hold my breath till Genius Moffat moves on though!

Malohkeh
Malohkeh

The Invasion was wonderful. I'd love to see something of that caliber done nowadays.

Huknar
Huknar

I'd love to see a pure Cyberman final. Perhaps a huge war between three factions (Mondasians, Cybusmen and the Cyberaid.) 


The_Eternal_Dalek
The_Eternal_Dalek

The Cybermen are very much a concept for the "future" and it happens to be that future we are living in. The Daleks were the same, but luckily we didn't annihilate ourselves with a nuclear war like everyone feared back in the 60s.


The Daleks keep going because of the fame they picked up but as a concept they have lost their edge.

B910
B910

I have to agree in that the Cybermen are worthy & terrifying monsters. But I think that this article is forgetting that the other major foes like the Daleks & the Weeping Angels have changed, albeit if not enough or as much, & they have the same potential and genius.




The Daleks just might have had their time since they just aren't scary anymore with very few exceptions, although they could try to get an inside look at a Dalek & have them have bodies made up of a single cell from every race in the universe but would still have its own Dalek mind. The program could really show how much the mutant hates itself, but the hate is only driving it to exterminate more aliens until it either exterminates itself when there's no other alien races or becomes to believe that it is the new perfect race and tries to exterminate all other Daleks, but in the end starts feeling emotion & kills itself out of disgust.

And most of the heart wrenching about the Weeping Angels has only been done in articles like this, but BBC could still take the monster's point of view for a change & show how lonely they are from never being able to even see their own parents or other various loved ones & this is why they feel so compelled to uproot the lives of others.

Again, these are all just theories & I have to agree that right now, the Cybermen are in fact the best of the best & I love how they can become sleeker, more edgy, faster, stronger, & just overall better.


DrKnockers05
DrKnockers05

I love the Cybermen. There's just something about them that makes me really excited every time I see them :D

I'd like to see a Cyber-war episode in Capaldi's era. Between Cybus-Cybermen and the latest variant of them. Perhaps a few of the old ones could make a return? I don't know. Just a story I'd like to see ;D

Baker Street is excited for Series 8!
Baker Street is excited for Series 8!

I adore the Cybermen, and they are my favourite Who enemy too. No other monster has such a dark concept - turning ourselves into machines and believing that a lack of emotions makes us stronger is a terrifying idea. Yes, we have the Angels and the Vashta Nerada and the Flood, but the basic idea of the Cybermen is horrific and... well, wrong. And there's just something so menacing and unstoppable about them. They will just keep coming at you!

I do prefer the Classic Cybermen though, when they actually talked, made plans, were stealthy, were intelligent, and didn't just want to stomp around deleting everybody. I mean, have the modern Cybermen actually had a decent plan other than "we want to upgrade the world/rebuild our army"? It worked well in their debut episode, but they haven't developed much since. And now they're completely robotic, unstoppable, dumb machines, which is too far from what they originally were, in my opinion. We need to see some development, the return of the intelligence. We need to see them be the superior beings, not unstoppable machines. Sorry, mini rant over. I love the Cybermen from "Tomb" and "Earthshock", and I loved how they were stealthy and crafty. And, as Gary said, they seem a lot more human - which is terrifying. In "The Five Doctors" they even went as far as showing one vomiting (I think!), which I found quite amusing as a 7-year-old. Is that wrong? But, in all fairness, any Cyberman story is good enough for me. I just hope they can be redeemed in Capaldi's era. Maybe Moffat could write an episode featuring them? That would be interesting to see. Anyhoo, great article!

Chronos the Fannibal
Chronos the Fannibal

A transparent Cyberman would be disgusting (keeping in mind that at some point whole body conversions were done)

Antee991166
Antee991166

I think the Cybermen have more consistent stories than say the Daleks. There is only one classic Cybermen story that I would consider bad (Silver Nemesis) whereas there were several weak Dalek stories (Day, Death, Destiny). I probably still prefer the Daleks but I still love the Cybermen. Great article!

SonicTheHedgehogRules
SonicTheHedgehogRules

Ah, the Cybermen. A true powerhouse of the Classic era. Bold, impressive, threantening, just pure awesomeness. Stories like Earthshock and Real Time prove the might of the Cyber-race, which a big setting and a dire cost of our dear Doctor fails his task.

With the New Series, you'd obviously expect the Mondasians to get a comeback. We almost got it, but we got random alternate Universe Cybermen, which are known as Cybusmen. These Cybusmen have different characteristics, robotic, bland as all hell personalities, and essentially walking computers with some flesh and a brain in them. Ok, thats cool. Their first outing was a successful one, with high stakes and dire costs.

The constant returns is where things become dull and drousey.

The Next Doctor, while a nice little continuation, is unecessary.

The Pandorica Opens. The only question I ask is; Why are the Cybusmen thhere? What is this?

A Good Man Goes To War. So they've decided to drop the corporate branding and gotten bigger guns. And stolen the Cybermen's ships. Ok...?

Closing Time. Oh god, this episode tried so much. It tried to get rid of this label of Deleting and Upgrading, but to no aveil. Defeated by Love. To this day it makes me cringe.

Nightmare in Silver. Does it need explination? A terrible redesign, overpowered Cybusmen that are immune to everything, overuse of the word Upgrade, and references to the past that really doesn't save this story.

Then they come back in Time of the Doctor and it kinda just crumbles. Plus you can tell Nick Briggs just doesn't care for them when he voices them. They sound even worse here than before.

Writers don't know what to do with Cybermen. They have 2 factions, and they seem to be always using the inferior ones. Just, why? Cybermen are Cyborgs. Not walking computers with the same powers and Superman (essentially Metallo), so why bother? This is a short version, as I've stated my opinion on Cybermen before. They never will bring back the Classics, and it saddens me, because they're my second favourite villians. They worked so well, and the legacy is essentially dumped in favour of the Cybusmen. Please, let Nick Briggs write for them. He knows exactly what to do.

A Friend of the Ood
A Friend of the Ood

@MeglosProductions I didn't love it, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as most seem to think. The kids were annoying, but other than that it was enjoyable enough. Not a classic, but not "Fear Her" either.

Temporal_Tomato
Temporal_Tomato

Seeing as the latter of the three is the first two combined, that really doesn't make all that much sense, but a pure Cyberman finale would be brilliant, there would be no excuses to make it comedic or anything of the like (as much as I like Closing Time, the Cybermen were certainly not the highlight). I'd love for them to do something with the body horror (though with the time slot in mind), that in my opinion makes them much more frightening than the tin robots they're sometimes made out to be.

NeutronFlow
NeutronFlow

@Baker Street… is the Moment! Please don't apologise for your mini rant, you are so right. You've identified exactly what is wrong with post 2005 Cybermen!! 


We need to see some personality restored to them. To see them plan, and discuss, as they used to. 

We need again to see Cybermen that can have a conversation and debate with the Doctor, other than mindlessly spouting 'Delete' and 'Upgrade'. 

It's no wonder they don't seem threatening anymore because they come across as imbeciles. 

Cybermen have removed their emotions, yes, but they should still have character and individuality. 


That would restore their menace.

SonicTheHedgehogRules
SonicTheHedgehogRules

Wow, fantastic! Someone else that prefers the Classic Cybermen over the current ones! I'm personally more critical, just 'cause I'm an uber nerd, but I do long for the return of our silver cyborgs from our twin planet.

Out of curiosity, have you heard of Real Time? The plot is slightly confusing, but the Cybermen in the story are just at the height of perfection. Everything about them is just brilliant! You should check it out, if you haven't already!

Liana21
Liana21

It would be like a walking skeleton with a brain visible...quite nasty

Liana21
Liana21

Silver Nemesis is in the Crazy section of the Classic era, nazies, people traveling in time with a potion, a duck on the TARDIS... it's the kind of serial you laugh a lot, but you want know what the writers ate before write it.

Liana21
Liana21

I like the message that Closing Time has, there's no more powerful force on the Universe than the love of a parent for his/ her child. It's a great message.

Christopher Brown
Christopher Brown

@Hoody98 @Christopher Brown  Well Toberman is a pretty embarrassing stereotype, so yes. Plus, all the human villains are quite deliberately ethnic in nature. Just saying, it's something to be wary of with these old stories (and new ones, if any of them were stupid enough to try it - though I must confess I'm quite uncomfortable with Ten referring to the Vinvocci as Cacti when he knows it's considered racist, as well as Eleven's put-downs of Strax in "The Snowmen". Prejudice against fictional non-humans is still promoting prejudice, after all). 

joelharris199892
joelharris199892

@Liana21  However, if things are to take a "darker turn" with Peter Capaldi's era, it might be good to have that "disgusting" factor make a comeback. Remember when cybermen heads used to blow up and throw brains in every direction? :)

Antee991166
Antee991166

@Liana21 I don't mind a bit of craziness, the main problem with it is that the Cybermen are absolute wimps in it. Being killed gold arrows is one thing, but gold coins?!

gunslinger19
gunslinger19

@Liana21  the message that there is no force more powerful than love is a good message and probably true. however, the way it was presented was stupid. if Craig had risked everything in some desperate attempt to save Alfie, love would have been a theme of the story. using it as a plot device was unsubtle and actually not very interesting.

SonicTheHedgehogRules
SonicTheHedgehogRules

But in all seriousness, that was terrible. I was just sitting there laughing when that scene happened. Yeah, I understand they're suppose to be emotionless, and some kind of emotion during a conversion woukd overload something, but SERIOUSLY?

It wouldn't happen if the conversion was done correctly, which would involve removing internal organs and limbs, replacing it with metal, plastic, pipes, and creating this monstrocity, all while the victim screams in agony. Obviously that can't happen on TV, but it's honestly how the Cybermen SHOULD be done. Real Time, an audio from the brilliant Big Finish, is literally the perfect example of Cybermen. They are nothing but emotionless killing machines, who feel no pain and certainly aren't defeated by love. The conversion is gory and bloody, and you can here flesh meeting machinery as it's being completed. You here a cold voice, with a robotic tone to it. I have to stop before I praise that story more.

Closing Time is the best attempt at trying to be Cybermen, despite that point. It remembers that Cybermen are CYBORGS, and they lurk in the shadows, picking off their next victim to turn into another Cybermen. I've argued before that the Cybermats in the story have more organic elements than the Cybermen themselves, but then again, they aren't Cybermen. They're the cheap knockoffs.

I've always been curious, was there some legal issue to get Cybermen back onto our screens? All the other major classic villains (excluding the Yeti robots and Sea Devils) have returned faithfully, why not the Cybermen? Someone has to have the answer.

SonicTheHedgehogRules
SonicTheHedgehogRules

True, but I'm pretty sure the most powerful force in the Universe is an apache helicopter. It has missiles AND machine guns. The clear winner there.

floppy_who
floppy_who

It's gold...full stop. The Cyberleader in Earthshock is disabled by the gold edging on Adric's badge.

Basically, a classic era Cyberman (from 1975 onwards) could have been knocked out by one of those new cinnamon flavoured vodkas that have gold leaf in them. But then a bottle of that would go a fair way to knocking me out too....

SonicTheHedgehogRules
SonicTheHedgehogRules

I get where that point was coming from, but it was done so badly and I just found it rather gringeworthy. Besides, it's not as if he was converted correctly.

SonicTheHedgehogRules
SonicTheHedgehogRules

This evidence is rather far fetched and vauge to be making such assumptions.

Cybermats are in Blood of the Cybermen. Nobody makes reference to that? You could say that with that evidence, the ones in Bloos of the Cybermen are Mondasian, right?

They're not. A quick logo change on the chest, like on TV, does nothing. They still walk, talk, and act like Cybusmen, so therefore, they are Cybusmen.

You call that a Cyber-Planner? Cyber-Planners are battle comouters of pure logic, assisting Cybermen in what would be next to attack, and strategist value something may have, etc. This Cyber-Planner featured in Nightmare in Silver is the farthest thing from it. It clearly has emotions, and acts rather bizzarley for a computer. Did I mention it's a keen chess player? Then again, Nightmare in Silver is a complete and utter continuity mess, so I can excuse you for thinking that.

I'll give you that point on the word Delete, but the sad thing is, in Time of the Doctor, they consistsntly use the sister word, "Upgrade", which is just as bad. It makes them out to be mindless robots, with no clear objective or motive established.

I know Moffat said that The Pandorica Opens and A Good Man Goes To War was supposed to have redesigns, but he was better off not including them, or at the very least quickly remaking Silver Nemesis costumes courtacy of The Is Planet Earth and have them talking, instead of changing the logo to create even MORE confusion. Moffat means well, he honestly does, but nobody else seems to, and he just follows the bandwagon, as evident in Time of the Doctor.

Neil Gaiman's explination is even worse. "Tom Baker Universe"?!?! I'm pretty sure that the Tom Baker Universe is filled with 4th Doctor's, Sinbads, and What If Galdalfs running around in fields of grass, saying poetry outload with a hint of Little Britain sarcasm. I'd argue Neil Gaiman knows even less about Doctor Who than any writer ever has. He does so well in The Doctor's Wife, then writes Nightmare in Silver? What happened...?

The_Eternal_Dalek
The_Eternal_Dalek

@SonicTheHedgehogRules Humans are also inferior in the eyes of the Cybermen, so they want to convert us to their own. Similarly the Cybusmen are inferior, so they convert them to their own.


They have made it fairly clear outwith the show that these are not Cybusmen still. This is the Mondasians of old, the whole "change the chest plate" was because as per usual the BBC are only paying them the budget of any other drama so they are hard up again and needed to save money. Metal plate to cover up the Cybus logo was all they could afford.


You are of course entitled to your opinion and it has yet to be made absolutely clear on screen, but given obvious traits of the Mondasians (Cybermats, Cyber Planners, the lack of that dreadful word "Delete") there is plenty of evidence to support their position.

SonicTheHedgehogRules
SonicTheHedgehogRules

A question I ask there is why would the Cybermen take over inferior technology? Getting rid of the Cybus Industries logo on their chest REALLY does nothing. It's Moffats attempt at trying to get rid of the mess RTD caused, but it's backfired so much that, let's be honest, not even the fans know what is what.

I'll defend my statement that the Cybermen haven't been in the New Series until a writer makes VERY CLEAR, with the way they talk, act, and certain characteristics, which faction they are. Cybermen are cyborgs. Not computers that have such jerky walking.

The_Eternal_Dalek
The_Eternal_Dalek

@SonicTheHedgehogRules In what way do you mean "faithfully"? If you mean the whole Cybus reboot nonsense, that was just RTD messing around with everything. As of A Good Man Goes to War they are Mondasians (apparently they took over the Cybusmen at some point and took advantage of their technology, even the ones in The Pandorica Opens are just servants of the greater Cyberiad or whatever they call themselves now).

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