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Thoughts on a Return for Gallifrey

Mark McCullough wonders if Moffat’s big twist has actually changed anything.

day-of-the-doctor-tv-trailer-(3)-gallifrey

With The Day of the Doctor, Steven Moffat wrote a major twist in the course of the Time War. The revelation that Gallifrey was in fact saved leaves the door open for its imminent return to the universe. But would this be a good move for the show? From what I have read online, it seems that a lot of fans are in favour of the idea. Many are even excited by the possibility of their favourite Time Lords returning: The Master, Rassilon, and even Romana. Whilst these may not occur, it certainly leaves the possibility open. But is it as easy as just bringing Gallifrey back? Has Moffat’s big twist actually changed anything?

“Gallifrey Falls No More”

gallifrey-planet-dayThere are two distinct events which must occur before Gallifrey can be restored to its former glory: the planet being saved (which has already occurred), and then its eventual return to the universe. The idea of reversing the destruction of Gallifrey was an intelligent one. The thought that the Doctor would actually have been capable of killing his own kind was not one which sits well with the character of the Doctor. That said, the Last of the Time Lords story arc was wonderful and gave the character of the Doctor an added depth which was utilised brilliantly throughout its duration. To then have him save the lives of a supposedly corrupt and dangerous planet, just because he could not stand to see children burn, resonates with everything the character stands for. The denouement of the fiftieth anniversary special left Gallifrey trapped in a bubble, outside the confines of the universe. It is my opinion that it should stay there.

“You weren’t there in the final days of the War. You never saw what was born.”

rassilon-doctor-who-end-of-timeMoffat has been very careful not to contradict Davies source material on the Time War. By making use of the plot device that only the current Doctor retains memories of Multi-Doctor encounters, he ensured that all preceding series still made sense preserving their pathos. The Ninth Doctor would have assumed that he had destroyed Gallifrey, due to lack of memory otherwise. Given Moffat’s approach so far, it would be logical to assume that he will not change Davies depiction of the Time Lords in the final days of the war. This assumption is supported further by Moffat’s writing of Cass’ dialogue in The Night of the Doctor.

This leaves us in the position that those who rule Gallifrey are evil and corrupt. For me, this would make a decision by the Doctor to bring Gallifrey back to the universe incomprehensible. Looking again at the character’s moral compass, he has always strived towards peace and freedom from oppression. Therefore I see no reason, other than the selfish one that they are his own people, for the Doctor to unleash the force of the Time Lords. It may be suggested that the Doctor should not judge his entire people based on the sins of a few. That he had saved the planet in The Day of the Doctor because of the children, so it should follow that he would do the same again. From my point of view this is not necessarily the case, in Day the alternative was burning, this time (as far as we are aware) life on Gallifrey continues as normal (the Time Lords were able to ask the question and gift the Doctor a new regeneration set). When faced with a situation where the power base is threat and the innocent remain unaffected, the only logical decision for a man like the Doctor is to leave the planet as it is.

This is where the potential to explore the Doctor’s character could be utilised. The conflict of head over hearts could play a huge factor in his decision to restore his people. Regardless of what they have done in the past, they are still exactly that; his people. This means that loyalty and debt (for his new set of regenerations) may outweigh the logical element of decision. His anguish as the last of the Time Lords may cause him to make a decision which he would not make under normal circumstances. Ultimately this remains unlikely as the Doctor has convinced himself that the Time Lords are better off dead, and that they had become so monstrous that they are beyond redemption. Whatever his reasons for telling convincing himself this was the case, it is what he now believes. As the only one capable of bringing back the Time Lords, it makes it unlikely.

Conclusion

I don’t think it is in the Doctor’s nature to bring back his home planet and its resident species. The risks posed to the rest of the universe outweigh the personal rewards making it an impossible decision. His history with the species and mental attitude towards the situation coupled with the fact that his people are not in any active danger makes any imminent return for Gallifrey seem unlikely.

That said I feel having saved Gallifrey from the Time War, Moffat has to bring it back eventually. When this happens I hope he encourages it by placing the Doctor in a situation where he is left without any choice other than to bring back the Time Lords, perhaps one where only Earth can be saved by an intervention of the Time Lords?

Step back in time...

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72 comments
LordRassilon
LordRassilon

You've overlooking simultaneity between the High Council, and The CIA.


The CIA is clearly in charge of coordinating the War Effort, but the High Council, with the exception of Lord president Rassilon--a madman, who started a crusade against the Great vampires, participated in The Death Zone games, trapped the Divergent species in a self-sealed pocket universe, and committed other terrible deeds, perhaps even trapping Omega in a universe of anti-matter--has clearly been resurrected using forbidden science and lord, from The Dark Times, to lead the fight in The Time War.


It's pretty clear that people don;t like his policies, but feat to act against him, because of the repercussions. Look what he does to that Time Lady with his De-Mat Gauntlet, as an example of voicing any opinion of which he doesn't approve.


If Galifrey is taken out of time, and the Daeks destroy each-other, the forces of the CIA could probably mop up the remaining Dalek forces in a short while using the 'forbidden weapons--and the failure of Rassilon to achieve ascension would probably lead to many people turning away from his ideals, and positioning The Doctor as the greatest hero on Gallifrey, rather than Rassion, upholding his (The Doctor's) ideals, of peace, and enlightenment, over those of a dictator (i.e. Rassilon), leading to deposing him, and re-establishing rule of law.


Without Dalek forces assailing the planet, they could re-build, and then focus on finding the man who saved them, returning to a way of peace, over time. Think of this:


How much time elapsed between the Fall of Arcadia (No More), and Gallifrey broadcasting the message, to The Doctor? I would suspect that in reaching out to him, they are showing that the ideas of Rassilon had been abandoned,. Otherwise, they people of Gallifrey could have ascended inside that pocket universe, had they still planned on taking that action.


Weighing al the decisions of Rassilon, that only led to destruction, against those of The Doctor, that saved Gallifrey, I would thin that the High Council would have cast aside his ideas on a way to escape--that isn't even needed now--and probably returned him to The matrix, or to perpetual sleep in The Dark Tower. 


There's no reason to believe that without the threat of impending doom, that the High Council would sanction The End of Time, and the CIA would certainly not participate. There may have been another civil war, but in the end Rassilon would lose support, due to his dismal faliure in handling the Time War, and the statement by the Doctor 'If the Time Lords return, they will come in peace.', is based on these types of conclusions, for if they didn't intend to return to their original path, they wouldn't call out for *his* aid. 

Oi, did anyone else catch the reference in ;Rings of Akhaten: 'I walked in a universe, where the laws of reality were devised by a man man!'? That mates, is a reference to the Zagreus story arc. It's about the only thing that truly fits the picture, except perhaps the Antimatter World of Omega; but only the Divergent Universe itself had laws completely devised by a madman (i.e. Rassilon). I think it was a clever nod to the audios, and quite the deserving one, with the upcoming return of McGann to the screen in Night of The Doctor, that makes the Divergent Universe arc canon, **by directly referencing Charlotte, and C'Rizz**.


While I may not hold the novels as canon-[--Time Lord Genetic Looms my arse--the audios are generally non-contrary to the telly broadcasts, with the possible exception of 'The Kingmaker', contradicting 'The Shakespeare Code'.



DaftDalek is Kavinsky, the Great 80's Annihilator
DaftDalek is Kavinsky, the Great 80's Annihilator

There must be war still on Gallifrey. There were millions of Daleks on it that day. And what about the Nightmare Child and co.? All this means that its return should be handled very carefully.

The Finn
The Finn

A very interesting article!

pipkin45
pipkin45

If the Dalek fleet was wiped out by the Doctor's regeneration energy, surely its safe for Gallifrey to be pulled out of their temporary pocket universe and begin again their august monitoring of the timelines  and keep things on even keel.  Whatever machinations of bad Time Lords are afoot can be dealt with in a way any terrorist situation would be dealt with, they were once gods amongst the universe, lets see that again and it gives scope for more off earth adventures for the show which is now so bogged down with earthbound adventures, it seems there isn't a universe out there anymore.

TheWhiteGuardian
TheWhiteGuardian

My big query is how they will deal with Rassilon and the rest of the council. I felt this was brushed over in DOTD, a few throwaway lines; 'to hell with the high council, they have plans of their own', but the Doctor cannot release such a force from where it is pent up without releasing the evil as well. there is also the matter of the horrors on Gallifrey e.g remaining Daleks, the Nightmare Child. In TEOT the doctor describes gallifrey as 'Hell'-it will still be there if he releases Gallifrey.

the_ponds_forever
the_ponds_forever

It would also be an a great way to introduce Irving Braxiatel to the on-screen Canon (Braxital is the Doctor's older brother in the Galifrey and Bernice Sumerfield audio Series and also many Novels.) and a return for Romana or an On-screen introduction to Tre (that is how you spell it right??)

teddybowties - the one on FFN not Tumblr
teddybowties - the one on FFN not Tumblr

Ohgod. i just had a horrific yet magnificent thought. What if the pocket universe to which the Doctor travelled in The Doctor's Wife is... what's left of... Home? It's a GREAT story idea... poignant and so very sad... but I hope that Gallifrey comes back properly, as a planet of allies with only a few stragglers. it wasn't explored enough, despite the wonderful classic eps Invasion of Time and Deadly Assassin with Tom Baker, and the few others which explored Gallifrey.





ArticTheTiger
ArticTheTiger

The question is, in the pocket universe does time pass? If we were to look at TTOTD, then yes it does, otherwise the Timelords would not have been able to look for a way out of the pocket universe by asking The Question. Now in times of peace, politics and democracy have a way of filtering out corruption, especially in such an advanced species as the Timelords. It might very well be that The Doctor, having faith in his species waits a while for the Timelords to be unified in their goal of escaping the pocket universe and then releases them as they would have sorted themselves out. 
















Planet of the Deaf
Planet of the Deaf

The important thing about DOTD was the innocent people saved, the 2.4bn children, the billions of ordinary people on Gallifrey, doing no harm to anyone. The fact that Gallifrey is now hidden outside of the universe is of no consequence for the majority of the inhabitants.



Maybe the Doctor will feel that it's not worth the risk of bringing Gallifrey back...

gunslinger19
gunslinger19

i think it should be atleast 3 years before we find it again, although i wouldnt mind if it took 50 years. i think if ever the dream lord returns, we could see a reality in which the doctor finds Gallifrey and one where he doesnt and he has to give up the gallifrey reality. also, i the daleks must be determined to kill the doctor now that he has the potential to bring gallifrey back. so maybe they could threaten Earth unless the doctor gives himself up and dies. i think this would be a good story as the doctor will have to decide where his home really is, Earth or gallifrey. i think an Earth bound doctor like the 3rd would be good as Earth could really become the doctor's home, and home seems to be the overiding theme of the next few years atleast

Big_Bad_Wolf
Big_Bad_Wolf

Bringing back the Timelords would mean the ultimate destruction of the Daleks, or the time war will just begin anew as shown in Time of the Doctor.

LeightonWestwoo
LeightonWestwoo

maybe Rassilon could use the time scope( as seen in the five doctors) to bring the doctor to gallerfray

Tardis Stowaway
Tardis Stowaway

Surely if they return the Time War will just begin again? Within the show, the Daleks are now (presumably) the dominant force of the universe, and when they see their old enemies return again, they'll just try to obliterate them like they did before. And if the Time Lords returned and saw the Daleks had survived and had essentially won the Time War, I doubt after centuries of war they'd just be happy to accept that they'd lost.

I think TTOTD backs this up, the only half-solution I can think of to this is that after quite a bit of time in the pocket universe, the Time Lords slowly change back into how they were before the war, and by the time Gallifrey returns the war has become ancient history. That still doesn't really account for the Daleks though. Ah well, it's Doctor Who! I'm sure it can be worked around (or brushed to the side - in the nicest-sounding way possible) if needed.


Plot details aside, I'm undecided. It'd be great to explore Gallifrey and the Time Lord culture a bit more, I can just imagine that with today's effects Gallifrey would look fantastic onscreen, but I think it shouldn't happen just yet, give this 'quest' a bit more time to become an actual journey for the Doctor.


Mercy Reborn2
Mercy Reborn2

maybe if our timelordscat pop up in their own universe maybe they should go to an alternate earth universe that the doctor could visit them but it  wouldn't upset anything.

Mercy Reborn2
Mercy Reborn2

I think they will bring them back sooner or later and it would be nice to find out what happened to Romana there were some good Timelords

chinnysandshoes
chinnysandshoes

During their exile in the pocket Universe, it could happen that there was a power struggle of sorts and the good managed to assume control and start the process of reformation. So Gallifrey would no longer be a danger to return. The Time Lords weren't all morally corrupt. They were once highly intelligent beings that vowed not to use their almost god-like wisdom to interfere with the Universe. And Nine himself once said in Fathwr's Day that there was a time his people would have stopped those creatures from destroying Earth.

Well, just thinking out loud. Overall, I agree with the article. It will be very interesting to see how Gallifrey goes from here. Eleven found a renew sense of purpose. That was so wonderful to see. After all this time,the Doctor can finally release himself from the burden.

Liana21
Liana21

The Doctor will bring back Gallifrey, but just under his own conditions. He has lived the horrors of the wr and he doesn't want repeat them again, so he won't bring them back until he's sure that the war wouldn't start again and the corrupt people is out of power on the high council.

MrThorfan64
MrThorfan64

Perhaps Rassilon was deposed when his extreme methods were no longer needed. Or he is in hiding from the Gallifreyans, who have realised his madness. Perhaps he will form an alliance with the Master and send him after the Doctor through the crack, in a regenerated body but not having given him a new cycle so he has some hold over him.

WaltMaueroeder
WaltMaueroeder

Maybe a really nasty twist would not be to have the Doctor bring back Gallifrey, but what if it was the Daleks that bring them back to this universe to try to eradicate them? Could you imagine the high council of Gallifrey being infected and have them be part Dalek?

VictorWong1
VictorWong1

Bringing the Time Lords back is going to involve one more thing, one more daunting task that even the Doctor may not be up to.


Simply put, Time of the Doctor establishes that should the Time Lords return to the Whoniverse, the Last Great Time War would resume, i.e. it's back to Square One. That means that the Doctor, prior to helping Gallifrey return to the universe, must re-establish the planet and people's reputation such that their adversaries would *never* consider rearming for that War.

The most obvious and handy method to do this would be for the Doctor to set himself up as an example of the Time Lord, a positive role model such that the Universe would welcome more like him. Since this feeds into the dramatic device of perception versus reality (remember Time Lord Victorious?), it offers good opportunites for exploring the darker aspects of the Doctor.

Another method would be for the Doctor to go on trial for war crimes, specifically the war crimes of his people. We know that he does feel some responsibility for the consequences of the Time War (which is why he didn't opt for the eradication option for the Zygons in Day), and this is likely to be explored in 2016-17 when the Nuremberg trial anniversaries will become topical.


Seaborn W Deadman
Seaborn W Deadman

Agreed! However, what Moffat's clever twist DID do was make possible the return of certain Timelord favourites from the past, or the introduction of new Timelords here and there. It is not entirely implausible that with the technology the Timelords have access to, a few would be able to escape the pocket universe and pose as a threat or ally to the Doctor in the future. Names like Rassilon, The Rani, and Romana come to mind! I would also be thrilled to see all new Timelord characters enter the picture.

Unibot
Unibot

I think everyone is thinking too linearly. Gallifrey will probably be "brought back" to TV before we find out -how- it has actually been brought back. If The Doctor now knows Gallifrey can be brought back, assuming it is eventually returned to the universe, it can be found. I suspect Gallifrey upon returning to the universe hid... hid in a transcendental bubble in Ireland. Because Gallifrey is Irish of course. ;)


Huknar
Huknar

It's really rather wonderful don't you think, at the possibilities for stories both about their return, during their exile and after their return. I could imagine a series culminating in the Doctor finding Gallifrey, but finds the planet empty and a whole plot about that begins.



Huknar
Huknar

"perhaps one where only Earth can be saved by an intervention of the Time Lords?" Oh well done Mr McCollough. What a most fascinating idea! Now THAT would be a way to raise the stakes in a final, that a threat got so bad the only way to defeat it was to enlist the help of the entire Timelord race. Something like that is what I've been waiting a long time for from Moffat.





Ninjauthor
Ninjauthor

it wasn't just for selfish reasons, there were thousands of decent innocent people on galifrey who weren't part of the corrupt ruling class not to mention that due to their plotting in the end of time the ruling class have now disappeared from the universe


MrRazza is wittily changing his name for each week
MrRazza is wittily changing his name for each week

Presumably the return of Gallifrey will be in a situation where it is necessary, i.e. the Time Lords may be in possession of something, or have certain knowledge, or may be able to prevent a worse event. 

I have no issues at all with the Time Lords returning, but I do think it should be a while yet, much more than a series arc. Also, following their return, their appearances should continue to be kept to a minimum, they should not be overused and their culture and society should be kept as something of a mystery or enigma.


Rani Nose
Rani Nose

So many thoughts on this...

The existence of Gallifrey is a framing device, like the Doctor being the last of the Time Lords, not a season-long arch or a quest like the Key to Time.  Moffat has done the easy work of saving Gallifrey and hiding it away.  The difficult work is going to be finding the planet and returning it to it's proper universe.






It makes no dramatic sense for the show to find the planet anytime soon.  First, the Doctor has no way of actively searching for Gallifrey.  Instead he is going to stumble upon clues.  Some of those clues will turn out to be red herrings.  In good Moffat fashion we probably won't even know what the real clues are until Gallifrey is found.  I'm going to guess that the Doctor will require another Time Lord's help in finding Gallifrey, which likely means the Master will return.  



Once the Doctor finds Gallifrey he will need to figure out how if he can travel there and back to his own universe.  That's probably an easy hand-wavy problem.  The bigger problem is going to be whether or not the Doctor wants to bring the Time Lords back.  If Rassilon the nutter is still in charge the Doctor may think twice about returning Gallifrey.   

Another complication:  As stated in Time of the Doctor the Daleks stand ready to start the Time War anew should Gallifrey return.  That implies that the Doctor has to lay the groundwork for the return of Gallifrey.  Does he defeat the Daleks once and for all?  Does he turn his enemy into an ally?  Either way, that won't be a simple single episode task.   


Let's say the Doctor finds Gallifrey, sees it is in a position to return, and knows he can safely return it to its proper place in the universe.  Then what?  The Doctor's life seldom very straightforward.  Once Gallifrey returns does he stay there?  Does he have a falling out with the Time Lords?  Will there be jolly multi-Time Lord adventures?















OncomingAvenger in a Browncoat with a stake
OncomingAvenger in a Browncoat with a stake

I'm not sure I really want them back, or at least not for a long time. And I agree with the conclusion, if they have to come back, preferably make it because there's no other choice.

Andrew_Swallow
Andrew_Swallow

There are several possible Time Lord stories before they are brought back.

Rassilon could be deposed.

Romana should be freed.

There were several monsters running around during the Time War - they need defeating.

A passage way allowing a Tardis to pass through could be created.

What happened to The Moment?  Is it in the Tardis or on Gallifrey?

JPatterson2
JPatterson2

I think the thing being forgotten is that the High Council was the corrupt group of people. We see that in the 50th, the war Council had no idea of their plans, the citizens of Gallifrey definitely didn't know,It seems as if the soldiers fighting didn't know. And it's hinted at in the End of Time that the high council is really only going along with it out of fear of Rassilon. War changes people. And the Time War is over now. All the Doctor really has to do is bring them back and stop Rassilon which might not have to be done. They could say that  The Master incapacitated him and an arc could be the Doctor restoring Gallifrey to its former glory. I think the fact that they gave the Doctor more regenerations in the first place shows that they're getting better. Rassilon probably would have let him die. So long story short I don't think it's "out of character" for the Doctor to bring them back just because of a corrupt dictator who was probably only appointed president because of the war.

RiseOfBread
RiseOfBread

Maybe there could be a series set on and around Gallifrey, and the Doctor is trying to get rid of the corruption and insanity left by the Time War. If done right it could be quite thrilling, with action provided by enemy Time Lords, fascinating supporting characters, intriguing politics, and lots of opportunities for character development. It would be a different tone from anything before seen on the show, particularly since the Doctor never stays in one place that long, but if handled well, I think it could be very good. What do you think? 


MeglosProductions
MeglosProductions

I think that it worked brilliantly. The fact that all of the doctor's character building was still relevant as he still didn't know weather or not he saved Gallifrey or not is just brilliant writing.

MikeFalino
MikeFalino

I love the idea of the Doctor being not so perfect being realized not in the destruction of his people (which we learn he didn't in fact do) but in their return. That would be the worse act, if everything we've come to know of the Time Lords is true.  At some point he will be faced with the reality that the decision to bring them back, truly restore them, is more painful than when he destroyed them!

Mark McCullough
Mark McCullough

My ideal situation for a return for Gallifrey, would be a lesser of two evils sort of set up. Have him find the planet reasonably soonish, but not restore it. The arc of the series would follow his moral debate of risk vs reward/ head vs heart. Ultimately his decision is forced by event of perhaps the finale. Have the Doctor get beat for a change, leave him with no where to turn to...except his own people. Have him take the risk or restoring the Time Lords, but only to fix his mistake, and end the series on a dark note. I think Capaldi could pull of a story of this kind very well indeed.



Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

I'm actually too tired to read this now. But I don't want them to make a big deal about finding Gallifrey. I think it will get too over the top and also, the time lords are nearly all pretentious snobs.

Other than The Master, who is a great villain, and should certainly come back (though please don't cast Benedict Cumberbatch for the role). As well as The Doctor of course, being the main character. But I don't generally like them very much, as they, as I've said, aren't very nice, mostly, but also because they make to be boring characters. Again excluding The Master and The Doctor (and I haven't seen The Rani episodes).




Hunith
Hunith

Superficially, Moffat's Gallifrey twist might not contradict the plot points and, more importantly, the emotional impact of Davies' Last of the Time Lords motif, but unfortunately, it creates an inadvertent instance of dramatic irony for viewers who revisit the Davies era. Every time we rewatch Eccleston and Tennant (yes, and Smith too), whenever we see the Doctor get moody and regretful about his destruction of his home planet, whenever this regret motivates him to take action, we are now aware of something he isn't. We will think, calm down, man, it's cool, you didn't do it. He will seem just that little bit pathetic to us, going on about something that didn't happen after all. The events of The Day of the Doctor have irrevocably, if subtly, changed our perception of the Davies Doctor as a flawed (and therefore, relatable) hero, and that, in my opinion, is a pity. Especially because throughout the classic series Gallifrey is depicted as a less than perfect place where the rather pompous, holier-than-though Time Lords play their game of political power and have no scruples at all to use the Doctor as a pawn when it suits them - which is why the Doctor can't wait to be gone from the place again whenever he ends up there. So why should I be all psyched up about Gallifrey returning? It's the place the Doctor stole a TARDIS to escape from, remember?




teddybowties - the one on FFN not Tumblr
teddybowties - the one on FFN not Tumblr

@TheWhiteGuardian  ME too. We need to see that. But, I thought that becuase he intervened during the Moment's Moment that the Fall of Arcadia never happened, and thusly, most of the War never happened, including some of what the Time Lords did... and the Nightmare Child... but, now that people are saying such things... i thinktaht the End of Time is still going to happen in some fashion, which is exciting and scary to look forward to! I want to see thge look on 'Assilon's face when 12 kicks his bum like the Other might have, as in, Properly, like a Boss. I cannot WAIT to see THAt resolution. I can just imagine 12 showing up on Gallifrey all Teed, then popping up behind Rassilon like Dark Schneider behind Count D'aimon. or taking him out like he did with Kebi Dabu. ah, good times...







teddybowties - the one on FFN not Tumblr
teddybowties - the one on FFN not Tumblr

@ArticTheTiger  I thnk they might evolve in that time of waiting, either into the Ood... ;)))) or the Weeping Angels. SHUDDER. Either way, (I hope it's the Ood, for the happy feels) that would propel the new Doctor into a state of loss much similar to his previous one, while still giving the show a forward motion and upholding his lessons learned.

JohnPhillips5
JohnPhillips5

@VictorWong1  I was curious about whether or not The Doctor might be able to visit Gallifrey while it is locked in it's 'moment in time'...maybe if the Doctor needed the Time Lords to save earth as the author mentioned above, he could somehow transport himself back to Gallifrey and bargain with the other Time Lords.  I mean, he did save them...I'm not exactly sure how being locked in a single moment in time for eternity is like...are they growing older?  Do they have time to sit and think about their mistakes?  Also, another thought is though the Master seems to have been dealt with already, he is also a Time Lord and a time traveler, couldn't he return (possibly as an younger version of the Master) and once again attempt to bring them back?  Just a few thoughts. 

Liana21
Liana21

I'm kinda like see Tobias Moretti as a Time Lord, it would make official my head cannon of the Owner of Inspector Rex is a Time Lord.

AlessandroArsuffi
AlessandroArsuffi

@Huknar Looks like a remake of The War Games where the Second Doctor was forced to call the Time Lords despite his concerns with them because that was just the best thing to do at the time. That would make it compatible with the Doctor's nature. Now, imagine if the Doctor discovers that the menace to planet Earth was caused by the Time Lords themselves, for example The Master as new Lord President, so that the Doctor had been tricked to bring Gallifrey back? That would be a huge plot twist, don't you think?

AlessandroArsuffi
AlessandroArsuffi

@Ninjauthor That's true. We can see from The End of Time that at least two members of the High Council and one member of the War Council opposed Rassilon's Final Sanction, and we might suppose that despair was the reason why many Time Lords signed it. Also, the General and his immediate subjects from The Day of the Doctor were clearly disillusioned about the authority of Rassilon and the hierarchy and asked the Doctor to freeze Gallifrey because they knew their superiors would've failed. There were certainly great and good Gallifreyans and Time Lords out there who didn't deserve burning and may rebuild Gallifrey from scratch into a better society, at least temporarily until the next corrupt Lord President is enthroned.

Mark McCullough
Mark McCullough

@NinjauthorWhat I was trying to say was Gallifrey exists in a bubble now, corrupt and innocent together, but they are safe (as far as we know). So the only logic reason to bring them from the bubble back into the universe, is because they are his own people, which could be viewed as selfish.

You've not met Danny Pink? Bit of a lady killer
You've not met Danny Pink? Bit of a lady killer

@Andrew_Swallow I always had this headcanon idea where the War Doctor took the Moment into the TARDIS as a way of boosting it due to the damage it received during the Time War; and it's also why Rose Tyler could survive sufficiently with the Heart/Moment (in my headcanon) inside her (and thus allowing her to absorb it in the first place) - creating Bad Wolf.

Amy is uniting the Earth Kingdom!
Amy is uniting the Earth Kingdom!

@Hunith  "He will seem just that little bit pathetic to us"

- He doesn't to me.

"the Davies Doctor as a flawed (and therefore, relatable) hero"

- Except now the Doctor is in essentially the same state as he was before Davies' era, so are you saying that Doctor's 1-8 weren't relatable just because they weren't all moody and depressed over being a mass murderer? The Doctor still has flaws.






Brainlock
Brainlock

@teddybowties @TheWhiteGuardianSchrodinger's Gallifrey?

It exists in EOT as we saw it drive 7 series' worth of stories, but it also exists apart from that, as we saw in the 50th/Xmas specials.  We won't know which stasis it's in until Moff or the next showrunner tell us.