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Is it time for Davros to return?

Guest contributor Ben Wells on bringing back the Daleks’ creator.

The Stolen Earth & 413. Journey's End

With the eighth series of Doctor Who fast approaching I can’t help but wonder if we’re missing something… Of course I am talking about the one and only creator of the Daleks, Davros.

When Davros returned to the revived series in ‘The Stolen Earth,’ played by the brilliant Julian Bleach, it was a most welcome return. I, for one, find Davros one of the most threatening and manipulative of the Doctor’s enemies and I would gladly welcome his return again.

“I’m sick of the Daleks,” I hear you cry, “They’ve been used over and over again recently!”

Well yes, while it’s true that lately the Daleks have been used to death, and I agree it would probably be best to give them a miss for Series 8, I think if Capaldi is going to face the Daleks, who better to represent them than Davros himself? I believe Davros could lend to a much needed proper Dalek story, making the Daleks a threat again. But, how could this be done?

Davros could lend to a great Dalek story either dead or alive. How? Now, let me explain.

If Davros survived the intense fireballs on the Crucible and somehow managed to escape undetected, I think it’s pretty safe to assume that he’d be completely enraged by the Doctor. This could lead to a further deranged, manic and revenge-driven Davros, capable of designing a plot so atrocious and destructive in order to achieve his revenge on the Doctor. However, if this were to happen I don’t think it would be abrupt; Davros tends to work best when he is patient and calculating and I would expect him to plan out his revenge the same.

davros-stolen-earth-palm

Alternatively if Davros truly met his fate in ‘Journey’s End‘ it could lead to a nice story about the Doctor stumbling upon his resurrection as the Daleks become so desperate they consult their creator from beyond the grave, the Doctor helpless to stop them. Just a thought though, i’m sure Moffat and the crew will come up with a better story than me.

Where has Davros been all this time?

Whether or not he was finally defeated in ‘Journey’s End’ after being left burning on the Crucible, or still out there clinging to some rattled old Dalek remains to be seen. The point is, like the Master, Davros has been absent for some time, almost 6 years. While this absence probably helps Davros (making him a greater threat for when he does eventually return) I can’t help but wonder if now is the time. Of course the return of Davros should be threatening, every time we have seen Davros he has always been second to the Daleks, he needs to be sinister again and he needs to be cold and calculating.

Why now though?

The Daleks are in need of a decent story and I feel Davros could provide the basis for one. But more than that, the Doctor and Davros tend to be more equal in their intellect, taunting each other. Truth is, I can think of no better of a time for his return with the start of the Twelfth Doctor’s era. I want Capaldi to face him and I think number Twelve’s apparent fiercer nature would result in a great clash between the two. Similar to Nine’s rage towards the Dalek in ‘Dalek’. I think (and hope) that Peter’s performance as the Twelfth incarnation would contribute to the scare and the “rebirth” of the Daleks. But above all I hope that the Daleks are given a decent story in Series 8, and I hope this is achieved with the return of Davros.

Step back in time...

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191 comments
A Friend of the Ood is in your wall! :O
A Friend of the Ood is in your wall! :O

From Davros' point of view, Journey's End was between Revelation and Remembrance of the Daleks, so he lived unless time was rewritten (which would explain the sudden reappearance of Skaro). It's possible the Renegade and Imperial Dalek factions could come back, which would make a Dalek episode more interesting. I kind of doubt that Moffat would do that though.


I do think that would be a great finale. Davros from somewhere between Journey's End and Remembrance, with the Dalek factions, and maybe even Omega, which would also tie into the whole Gallifrey thing.

PeterThompson
PeterThompson

I'd like him to return on his own, so we got to see more of him and less off the daleks

backtothetardis
backtothetardis

I think Julian Bleach gave a great performance as Davros in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End and would probably rate him second only to the great Michael Wisher.

What I would really like to see is an episode that is basically a two-hander between the Doctor and Davros. He's far better when used as a fully-fledged character than when he has to play second-fiddle to the Daleks.

RobertHancock
RobertHancock

Just a thought, but why do the Daleks HAVE to be in it? He has become a villian in his own right. Revelation of the daleks would have worked great without the daleks. Davros could be tired of being betrayed by his creations and create something new, perfectly designed to annihilate the daleks and the Doctor. Or you can do a character story with Davros in peril, and against his better judgement the doctor is forced to give his enemy assylum, an episode with the doctor trapped with his bitter enemy, and possibly give Davros' origin, and maybecause the Doctor to pity his wounded rival. Any thoughts?

TimothySaxby
TimothySaxby

Yes and no, Peter seems to be the doctor to face off Davros again, but its to soon 

Unibot
Unibot

I really liked the actor that had in 2008 - he did a great job with the performance. Out of all of Classic Who, including The Master, I think I would most like to see Davros make a return. We only got a taste of him with The Stolen Earth - and he's very interesting character. I like how Davros can play twist The Doctor's perspective and make it seem like he is the one who should "run" in shame - while Davros himself is fighting for power against his own race (who hardly respect him). I would want to see a power struggle within the Dalek race - Davros trying to take back the Empire from the Parliament -- and then have that play into the "Gallifrey Returns!" storyline, because it could possibly used to eliminate the concerns of The Time War starting anew if ... say, if the parliamentary Daleks had to make a deal with The Doctor to maintain control of the Dalek race. 

Malohkeh
Malohkeh

I've got little interest in him returning. Then again, only stories I've seen with Davros are The Stolen Earth/Journey's End and Remembrance of the Daleks, so I haven't exactly seen him at his best.

The Living Angel is Regenerating
The Living Angel is Regenerating

I would love to see a story where Davros has created a completely new race to rival the Daleks.

Maybe he has become so disappointed by the Daleks and wants a new race that he can control once again.

I would also really like to see Skaro in more detail.

bondbug1973
bondbug1973

If they recreate the 1975 Davros look again. So much much better than the over-done 2008 version. Same actor though.

9101112
9101112

Now that is a villain I would love to see the Doctor up against in like a 3 or 4 part story, like in the classics when the villain would be pulling the strings and then in the last 2 episodes the big reveal and then the real battle begins...and I agree with the article the 12th Doctor would be the perfect Doctor for this, and let them bring the Daleks back in series 9 or 10, but the set up with Davros creating and building a new breed of daleks with the same casing of course I mean if it ain't broke and all right? But Yes BRING DAVROS BACK!

Mercy Reborn2
Mercy Reborn2

i think he should come back maybe with some new dalek  device that he has thought off or maybe in the future someone has woken him up and he is back to his evil ways


robohappy
robohappy

"Is it time for Davros to return?" YES!!!!!! Davros was a awesome villain and I hope Peter Capaldi gets to meet him! It would be a very intersting Dynamic, as the 12th is suppose to be angry and dark, so he might snap if Davros pushes him too far.

The 1976th Doctor
The 1976th Doctor

I'd like to see a prequel Davros so to speak, a normal scientist, and his story on how he turned into the three eyed crippled freak, maybe 12 created HIM in an accident.  Lets tell that tale.

ilyootha went into hiding
ilyootha went into hiding

Davros is one of those characters that seem to always come back sooner or later. I'm sure that one day we'll learn that he actually had a transmat device or something installed in his life support systems, which he used to escape the Crucible, and has now been gathering a new army of Daleks - or has come up with a different plan altogether...

Dannie Madsen
Dannie Madsen

I seriously never get that "feels forced" rubbish that people come up with.

SteviePenny
SteviePenny

Maybe do a story where Davros takes over the Dalrk Parliament with new creations. I'd like that.

Davros is certainly long overdue though, but when he does return, so must Julian.

Ivegotkidneys spoiler everybody dies
Ivegotkidneys spoiler everybody dies

I think it'll be a bit forced if he returned in series 8 I think he should come back for series 9-11 wait until the fan base really miss him like fans are with the Master now 

mrpaddy1984
mrpaddy1984

I would love to see a story with Davros without the Daleks. Or with minimal Dalek presence. Big Finish did it with their play "Davros" and it's still my favourite of all their releases.

Davros was always my number one villain. The Daleks are quite binary creatures, and whenever the show tries to portray them as more it doesn't really work. Davros gives Dalek stories so much more scope.

Dannie Madsen
Dannie Madsen

Yes!! Do it! Bring Davros back! I would love to see it. I feel something special for The Stolen Earth/Journey's End. I loved that two-parter. Bring Davros back again. And Dalek Caan, well, yes him too. If Davros actually did die, well, explain how he came back in series 4 finale WITHOUT saying that he got help from a Dalek. I mean...sure, Gallifrey did survive from the beginning but Davros DID in fact originally die.

The Finn
The Finn

If he comes back, I'm not too sure I'd want a "beyond the grave" scenario.

Creepy_Ghoul
Creepy_Ghoul

Nicholas Briggs should write a Dalek story. From what I heard, his Big Finish stories are the best.

Deus_Ex_Machina
Deus_Ex_Machina

My love of Davros has only grown since I've gotten into Big Finish. Bring him back!

The_Eternal_Dalek
The_Eternal_Dalek

Why not just have Davros by himself? He's a brilliant scientist who had developed many things over the years, yet all we ever see are the Daleks. Surely his great mind can think of something else to take out the Doctor before carrying on building his master race.

Venawesomeo
Venawesomeo

Nah, let's just assume he died and that Series 8 will have new stuff. Tis a key problem with our fandom - we're always looking back rather than ahead. I wanna see some new villains (hell, maybe one day we'll have a whole series with nothing but new ones) and some new legends. 

MrRazza is wittily changing his name for each week
MrRazza is wittily changing his name for each week

All you people clearly have no sympathy for my heart fairies! I will defend the Stolen Earth/Journey's End to my last breath, in fact I even prefer it to the ever loved Pandorica Opens/Big Bang. Yeah, you heard me! 

I'll tell you for why. It has the Daleks at their most threatening in the revival outside of Dalek (and possibly the Bad Wolf two-parter), they're actually doing something - i.e. invading the Earth, disintegrating the universe, shooting the Doctor... and however much of a fan service it may feel, we see the companion all united (Rose is weak, admittedly, but she also makes little appearance - compare to Martha's role here). It will always be one of my favourites, the cliffhanger of the regeneration, the chilling Davros and the rather useless but impressive Supreme Dalek (who I like to compare to Gordon Brown... see below). 

Perhaps it just still appeals to the kid in me that saw it first time around, but seriously... every time one of you slags it off, a fairy dies. In my heart. So think twice!

TonySimmons
TonySimmons

@bondbug1973  Agree with that. The mask for 2008 had a bit too much latex, the 1975 mask was much creepier. Julian Bleach did a good job in playing him though and id like to see him back calm, calculated, with a renegade Dalek faction

A Friend of the Ood is in your wall! :O
A Friend of the Ood is in your wall! :O

@The 1976th Doctor Big Finish did that, twice in fact. "Davros" tells some of Davros' history in flashbacks along with a great story involving him and the 6th Doctor (who is fantastic in his Big Finish stories). Then there's "I, Davros", which is a detailed 4-part story that tells everything from when he was young all the way up to Genesis of the Daleks. They're both great if you want to learn more about Davros.

Tardis Stowaway
Tardis Stowaway

@robertcyberman  I take it you haven't seen any of the older versions of Davros from the classic series? The prosthetics used in The Stolen Earth were 10x better than anything an actor playing Davros has ever had before, and in my opinion he looked much more realistic than many aliens we see on Doctor Who. Furthermore, I think The Stolen Earth was a great episode, and whilst I appreciate it won't be perfect for everyone, I struggle to see what it contains that makes it 'god-awful'.

Dannie Madsen
Dannie Madsen

Oh shut up!! It was a perfect brilliant awesome amazing story! It is still one of my favourites.

DaftDalek is Kavinsky, the Great 80's Annihilator
DaftDalek is Kavinsky, the Great 80's Annihilator

@MrRazza The Stolen Earth is easily a masterpiece. Incredible in every aspect. Journey's End, though, is a big step down compared to Stolen Earth. Still, its emotional factors save it from being awful. It's actually quite good but no TSE good.

Ivegotkidneys spoiler everybody dies
Ivegotkidneys spoiler everybody dies

@MrRazza I don't see why people are calling it underrated it came 22nd in the 2014 DWM poll but personally I don't love it nor hate it I like it I like it because of the memories  I've had watching it and it had good things in it such as the regeneration cliffhanger, every RTD companion, the maximum extermination of a family -seriously why does nobody ever mention that when they talk about this story- and I remember the shivers I had when I saw Davros body for the first time and the scene between Davros and the Doctor when they talk about using companions as weapons but what let this story down is it ending and the bad things is that there were multiple ways of making a satisfactory ending such as the use of Sarah Jane warpstar thing okay that would still be a duex ex machina but at leasts it's slightly believable but RTD just shafted it aside so that we can have a massive fan walk of watching the companions fly the Tardis which although maybe good on first viewing for me on subsequent viewing doesn't really give the same feeling also very minor nitpick is that out of the 27 planets we only saw Daleks invade earth I really wanted to see planet of the abzorbalofs of the adipose and I forgot to say another thing which let this story is the one will die prophecy Dalek Cann was saying as nobody died well I guess Donna metaphorically died or was he referring to Davros and finally I was abit annoyed after all that time in the parallel universe Rose didn't mature more as a character so overall I'd give this story a 7 or 8/10 lots of good things in it but 1 or 2 great big problems



Kiki Kiki
Kiki Kiki

@MrRazza THANK YOU SIR! The Stolen Earth is my all-time favourite episode and I too shall l defend it to my last breath.

Sir James Bond
Sir James Bond

@MrRazza I'm with you Razza. As an end of season, slam bang, no holds barred, ambition tickling, full on, spectacle slapping finale 'The Stolen Earth'/'Journey's End' ticks all the right boxes.....and guess what.....it got bums in seats. Lots of 'em. In fact 'Journey's End' is the only 'Doctor Who' story, in its entire 51 year history, to find itself atop the weekly ratings. Wallop! Job done. That's how you conclude a season. 

But beyond the glittery (razza)matazz (titter), I think the first twenty or so minutes of 'The Stolen Earth' are ruddy brilliant. Talk about expertly cranking up the tension. The disembodied voices, the ominous music, the Daleks had never felt so threatening.....and they hadn't even appeared on screen yet. All we had were the reactions of those who had fought and confronted the malevolent little pepperpots in the past.....and they were all sh*tting themselves. 

Oh RTD, you clever little dramatist you. 

Clever show-runner too. 

His detractors say he overused the Daleks, that he diminished their power, their allure. Well judging from the ratings, I'd say the Great British - license fee paying - public, wholeheartedly disagreed. They loved it.....and so did I.





A Friend of the Ood is in your wall! :O
A Friend of the Ood is in your wall! :O

@jlocoleman @A Friend of the Ood In Revelation of the Daleks, Davros' hand was shot off. In Journey's End he had a new metal hand. In Remembrance he looked completely different, but that was obviously after Revelation because of the Imperial vs Renegade Dalek conflict. So it only makes sense that, from Davros' point of view, Journey's End was before Remembrance. 

It also makes sense because the destruction of Skaro was part of the Time War. Skaro was destroyed in Remembrance, therefore Remembrance was part of the Time War. Dalek Caan took him out of the Time War.

stargazer0118
stargazer0118

@MrRazza Much better than the resolutions in Time of the Doctor, and some think that was a masterpiece...

MaraBackman
MaraBackman

@stargazer0118 @MrRazza The way I see it Time of the Doctor and The End of Time serve the exact same function: Both are intended to be grand send-offs to their respective Doctors and are thus primarily geared towards those who are very passionate fans of each Doctor. That pretty much means that the ones who get the most joy out of TEOT are primarily Tennant-fans while the ones enjoying Time are primarily fans of Matt Smith. Both of these stories are accused of being too indulgent by their detractors, but there's nothing truly wrong with it as the same was done with Pertwee's sendoff in 1974, when the producers used the opportunity to put in everything they wanted without any inhibition. If something is going to be a particular Doctor's final story, and maybe even for the entire production team, then they should be allowed to be indulgent and go out with a bang. I'll admit that Time did nothing for me, because I was not emotionally invested in that story or the long storyline it was a conclusion to. But it also didn't make me upset in any way, as I knew that I'm not the intended audience for Matt's final story and that they were going to start off fresh after his regeneration. So it was harmless and a gift to those fans who were going to miss Matt the most. 

That is why I think it's quite pointless to hate on a Doctor's exit-story even if one didn't like it, or the Doctor who left. This of course applies also to those who bash Tennant's exit, so I suggest thinking of that story as harmless indulgence if one didn't like.

MeglosProductions
MeglosProductions

@MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza  I think TOTD and The End Of Time were both pretty much the same. They both had big plot issues (TEOT more so than Time) but as regeneration stories both worked brilliantly well (TEOT slightly more so again). I'd say they are just as good as each other.

PaddyB
PaddyB

@MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza Tennant was my favourite Doctor but The End of Time (as well as Time of the Doctor) left me feeling a bit cold. It wasn't awful and the scenes with Wilf in the cafe and Rose at the Powell Estate were both brilliant but it wasn't the best of that era by a long way. 

The only modern series regeneration story that I've thought was really good was Bad Wolf/ Parting of the Ways as it doesn't seem like a regeneration story until the last two minutes (perhaps because Eccelston had only had one series so their wasn't much to commemorate) and therfore it wasn't weighed down by ominous foreshadowing and the disparate tying up of loose ends. 

Planet of the Deaf
Planet of the Deaf

@MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza  I'm not that keen on Time of the Doctor, but it's untrue to say that it's indulgent to Matt Smith,  when you compare it to the Pertwee chase scene or the Tennant farewell tour, as it was largely geared towards answering key plot points from S5-7; indeed most Matt Smith fans would complain that it wasn't indulgent enough!

Notsosmartguy's got no strings on him
Notsosmartguy's got no strings on him

@MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza I guess that explains why I didn't like the end of time but loved Bad Wolf/ a Parting of ways and Time of the Doctor. If I'm honest I think the tenth doctor is the most overrated fictional character and therefore had no investment. It hit me harder seeing Chris regenerate because he became my favorite when I watched series 1last year. Also Matt Smith because he was my first Doctor and loved how he'd switch between child like whimsy and old bitter man. But I still genuinely think Time and the series 1 finale where genuinely much better stories than the End of Time.

MaraBackman
MaraBackman

@Planet of the Deaf @MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza I don't honestly consider the plot points from Series 5-7 to have been that important at all to the special, because most of these were referenced quite quickly in single lines. Instead I'd say that the focus seems to me to have been to show the Eleventh Doctor as a self-sacrificing hero, who becomes something akin to Santa Claus or a Christ-figure to a tiny planet for an undisclosed amount of centuries. I consider it indulgent because it comes across mostly as being about pulling the heart-strings of Matt's fans, to see him grow old and keep fighting a long war all on his own. The entire story seems to try to aim for the combined fairytale-atmospheres of all three seasons in one last go and it has many emotional scenes intended to be heart-breaking, with two big speeches, as well as many repeats of Eleven's various signature moments. His final exit is also meant to be as heart-rending as possible, with the children's drawings, the double-hallucination of Amelia and Amy, and so on. If Time had also been Moffat's final story, then I believe that they might have aimed even higher with the emotional stuff.

MaraBackman
MaraBackman

@Notsosmartguy  @MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza The only reason I'm not saying that Eleven would be "overrated" as well is because it depends on so many different subjective factors how you receive something. I never grew very attached to Matt Smith, because I found that the moments of him being an old man (which I really enjoyed) were too seldom to my liking, so the whimsy was a bit too commonplace and grew grating for me. But he had enough enjoyable moments and even entire episodes for me to like.

I can definitely see the appeal of Matt's Doctor, in the same way that I can understand why people would not enjoy Tennant's Doctor. But while I can understand and acknowledge the long list of flaws Ten had, I'm quite surprised that many forget that he is neither the first nor only Doctor to behave like a complete jackass from time to time. But my guess is that it has to do with the subjective reception of each Doctor, where fans tend to forgive a preferred Doctor for doing something that a less liked Doctor has done as well. Another problem I guess would be backlash towards the hype, as newer fans keep hearing all the praise for Tennant as the one who could rival tom Baker, but because they become acquainted with Tennant only after seeing Matt they don't see what the fuss is about.

Personally I found Tennant to be the most fun of the three Doctors we've had since 2005, even if I do consider Eccleston's Doctor to be the most "respectable", with the lack of a better word. Because I hold Nine in high esteem, I was initially skeptical for a few episodes until Tennant won me over with that big grin of his. His madcap grin was always a sure sign that there would be a fun adventure on its way. His many personality flaws also gave him multiple layers and (like all Doctors) made him sometimes difficult to like, especially if he did something we didn't approve of. But the performance hit the right buttons for me and I found the Tenth Doctor to be an entertaining protagonist who constantly skirted the line between being an anti-hero and a genuinely heroic figure.

Planet of the Deaf
Planet of the Deaf

@MaraBackman @Planet of the Deaf @stargazer0118 @MrRazza  But then the whole idea of the old Doctor dying after one final long battle at Trenzalore was exactly predicted in Name of the Doctor where we even saw his tomb. The crack was the key element of the episode, the Timelords trying to come through was only possible after Gallifrey was saved in DOTD, and it was through the Timelords that he got his next set of Regenerations. Then we has the Silents and Kovarian explanations shoehorned in as well.


What I'm trying to say is that the episode was very arc heavy, with a few fan pleasing elements thrown in, rather than a separate discrete story designed to tug the heart strings of Matt Smith fans. If anything the heart breaking moments were for Clara rather than the Doctor anyway!

Notsosmartguy's got no strings on him
Notsosmartguy's got no strings on him

@MaraBackman @Notsosmartguy  @stargazer0118 @MrRazza I think that was it I kept hearing how DT was "dah best doctor evah" . He did not live up to the hype imo maybe it's because I didn't grow up with him but he just felt like a step down for me. I wasn't fond of his vanity issues towards the end of his life and how he holds rose to high esteem making poor Martha feel second rate. But other than that I like him.

MaraBackman
MaraBackman

@Planet of the Deaf @MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza Hmm. I see where you're coming from, but I still think that the arc is not that important once they get to Trenzalore. As for Clara, I think she's at least partly meant to be symbolic for the audience's sadness at seeing Matt go. While the special does have multiple connections to the previous seasons, I still think that the primary audience is the portion of the fandom who's been along for the ride and enjoyed it entirely since The Eleventh Hour, because there isn't really anything in the special geared at those in the audience who didn't care for the mysteries or other parts of the storyline, as it would b too late to court them at this point. So I feel it's most importantly a heartfelt curtain-call to Matt and a farewell from him to the audience, while the resolved plot points seem to be fixed away quickly to give Capaldi a clean slate to work from.

MaraBackman
MaraBackman

@Notsosmartguy  @MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza In the same way my enjoyment for Moffat's era was hampered by hearing that he would usher Doctor Who into a golden era of flawlessness, which does raise the bar quite high. Unfortunately there was only one of Moffat's stories from the RTD-era that I like as much as everybody else (that being his excellent two-parter fron Series 1), so I was a bit skeptical to his style becoming the norm. While I still don't like most of Series 6 or 7A, my views on Moffat's showrunning have softened considerably and I believe now that I would have enjoyed Matt's three seasons more at the time if I had not had any interaction with diehard fans of the era. That is why I've come to the conclusion that fan interaction can strongly affect the enjoyment of any show or film, often eclipsing what's happening on screen. That's why it might be the casual fans who have it the best.

Notsosmartguy's got no strings on him
Notsosmartguy's got no strings on him

@MaraBackman @Notsosmartguy  @stargazer0118 @MrRazza the empty child / the Doctor dances is my favorite dw story ever if you're gonna like one Moffat story you picked a good one :-) I'm one of the people who can almost any dw story as long as it delivers high concept adventure with 3 exceptions ( journey's end the 2011christmas special and the end of time) but other than that I either like or can tolerate other stories.

MaraBackman
MaraBackman

@Notsosmartguy  @MaraBackman @stargazer0118 @MrRazza It depends on how I feel about the Doctor featured in a story. With Tennant, Eccleston, Pertwee and Tom I always felt in safe hands, so even with stories that I wouldn't like there was always something that made it enjoyable enough for me to not be too bothered. I never became as confident and comfortable in the same way with Matt, so his stories had to work extra hard to hit my buttons correctly. In that way he is to me a lot like Troughton, besides the many similarities the two have. Troughton can be very awesome as the Doctor, with some of the greatest Doctor-y moments put to screen, but his particular Doctor is also a wildcard in that I never really know if he's actually going to deliver in awesomeness.