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A Bad Wolf or Just Plain Bad? Addressing Rose Criticisms

Guest contributor James Nash examines the most common criticisms of Billie Piper’s companion.

rose-series-4

Ah, Rose. What did you do to gain the hate of some of the Doctor Who community? Every fan I have spoken to loves Rose. Radio Times readers voted her as their favourite companion, they love Rose. From the off, I am going to say it, I love Rose. Today I’m going to explore the general problems some of the community and others have with Rose as well as try (probably in vain) to persuade you that Rose Tyler is not the devil’s spawn. The main issues I have identified are: Series 2 changes, selfishness, ‘clingy’ nature, jealousy and her return.

Series 2

The Idiots LanternAs you may all remember, Series 2 came out last on the Series 1-7 Face-Off results, something I definitely disagreed with. In terms of stories, no, it is not the best series. I believe that honour goes to Series 4 and 5. Much like Series 6, I believe it contained some average to bad episodes, yet some truly phenomenal ones also. Unfortunately, I would call second series of the revival inconsistent. A lot of comments have said, as well as several articles, that Rose’s character declined in Series 2. However, if you look closely, this just isn’t the case.

Even in some weaker episodes such as ‘The Idiot’s Lantern’ and ‘Fear Her’, Rose proves herself. While the Doctor is off chasing cars on his moped, Rose correctly identifies the television set as the real threat in 1950s London. She investigates alone, and although ends up faceless, this act clearly indicates her bravery and that while the Doctor might see the bigger picture, she notices the smaller (and sometimes more important) details. It is also this act that pushes the Doctor to stop the villainous Wire. Again, without the Doctor, Rose strives to save him and the world while visiting the London 2012 Olympics. She again uses her gutsy-ness – ‘Kel: You just took a council axe from a council van, and now you’re tearing up a council road! I’m reporting you to the council!‘ – as well as her loyalty to the Doctor to aid her. But most importantly, her compassion shines through. She once again sees the finer details and recognises that the Isolus pod only needed love, and helps Chloe Webber throughout the ordeal as well.

Of course, she also displays her worthiness in the better episodes. In the wonderful and heartbreaking ‘The Girl in the Fireplace’, Rose, with ‘help’ from Mickey, shows the viewers her curiosity, defying the Doctor, to investigate the SS Madame de Pompadour and the Clockwork Droids. She may be loyal to the Doctor, but does defy him when she wants too (other examples of this include ‘Dalek’, ‘The Parting of the Ways’, ‘Rise of the Cybermen’ and ‘Doomsday’). Steven Moffat also puts aside Rose’s jealousy and allows her compassion to take center stage, having her warn and attempt to comfort Reinette. Both Rose and Reinette understand the nature of life with the Doctor – ‘Rose: Are you okay? Reinette: No, I’m not. But you and I both know, don’t we, Rose, the Doctor is worth the monsters…‘ – leading to a subtle bond between the two. In an episode where she is really only a supporting character, she puts aside her feelings to help a woman in a similar situation to herself, despite the fact that both of them have romantic intentions towards the Doctor.

In the inexplicably terrifying ‘The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit’, Rose motivates and leads the remaining members of Sanctuary Base 6 so they can stop the Ood and defeat the devil himself. ‘The Valiant Child’ rallied to the defense of the Ood when she realises that humans still use slave labour over two thousand years after her time, calling herself a ‘friend of the Ood’, as well as taking charge even after the creature from the pit had prophecised that she would ‘die in battle, so very soon‘. She is also willing to stay and face the possessed Ood again, if it means she will be reunited with her Doctor.

Honestly, I fail to see how anyone can be oblivious to the on screen (and off screen friendship) chemistry between David Tennant and Billie Piper. They can be two best mates having a laugh and making bets around Queen Victoria, or distraught, separated lovers on Bad Wolf Bay. This amplifies the complexity of their relationship and how deep their trust goes. I consider the two of them *ducks behind the sofa* ‘my Doctor and companion’. These factors show, that come rain or shine (or come ‘Fear Her’ or ‘The Girl in the Fireplace’), Rose Tyler grows as a person in Series 2, taking more responsibility and becoming a leader, while keeping her essential companion qualities.

Her “Selfishness”

meta-crisis-doctor-bad-wolf-bayOh, how could I have failed to see it?! Obviously Rose should live with her mum FOREVER. Obviously she should stay with her boyfriend (that would rather go watch the football at the pub than console her after she lost her job and almost died) FOREVER. And how dare she try and use what she thought were her last seconds to tell the Doctor that her death wasn’t his fault, rather than blaming him or screaming (‘Dalek’ if you were wondering). How selfish of her to actually grow up! I hope the sarcasm is clear. This isn’t saying that I hate Jackie and Mickey, I love them. They go through great character development too. But there comes a point where you have to leave the nest if you want to have new experiences and grow as a person.

There’s a term known as the ‘Working Class Yoke’. This is where someone from a working class background may have to (unfairly) carry that ‘burden’ around. It’s also where a working class person is (also unfairly) held down by that yoke, meaning that they are expected to stay in their home town and work in their local shop, for example. My father came from a working class background and ‘broke the yoke’ as it were, by realising that he could do more, and leaving home to live in London. Now, as a family, we are middle class. My dad aspired to have a nice house in the countryside (a typical middle class lifestyle), when most of his school friends are still living where they were. Now please note I’m not insulting anyone of a working class background or those who still live where they were born. I’m simply saying that he realised that if you don’t put yourself into extraordinary situations, then nothing extraordinary will happen. That is what the Doctor did for Rose, he ‘broke the yoke’ for her and gave her a chance at seeing the universe differently. Arguably he did the same for Mickey is Series 2, leading Mickey from the idiot to the hero. People say that she was willing to leave her life behind to stay with the Doctor, and that doing that was wrong. But it wasn’t her life; it was the life Jackie wanted her to have. Travelling with the Doctor, that was truly her life. Should we blame her for wanting to live it? No. How could she ever go back after the TARDIS?

“Too Clingy”

rose-tennant-series-2Clingy. A word thrown around too often when discussing Rose. She is by no means a one-dimensional character. To put it simply, she cares deeply for the Doctor, so wishes to stay with him when she can; but when circumstances force them apart, she’s more than capable at not only looking after herself, but also leading others (mainly evident in ‘Turn Left’). However, if you still want to call her clingy, we have to note that she is not the only clingy one in the relationship.

Much to the annoyance and despair of Martha Jones, the Doctor spent the majority of Series 3 still mourning Rose. I feel that if Martha had stayed another series, she could have really come out from under Rose’s shadow and become not just the wonderful companion that she was, but perhaps viewed by the public as one of the greats. While Martha was saving his life and walking the Earth, Ten decided to mope and talk about how great Rose was, in front of his new companion. This was one of my criticisms of Series 3, the Doctor barely noticing Martha, and her sudden crush on him was detrimental to her character. It didn’t sit right with me that this smart, rational woman fell in love almost immediately with a madman in a box. It felt natural that a lost teenager slowly began to love the man that showed her an entirely new way of living, it worked for Rose’s character. But as much as I love Rose, she didn’t need to be mentioned in EVERY episode afterwords, I felt the mourning of her could have been handled better. But I digress. The Doctor was obviously a little clingy himself, but while he was being moody, Rose was actually doing something to get back. She had a dimension cannon built, travelled from parallel to parallel, warned Donna of the danger, just to see the Doctor again. When two people in a complicated relationship are equally obsessed with their other half, I don’t think you can call either one ‘clingy’. I think they’re just really into each other.

Jealousy

rose-sarah-jane-school-reunionMoving on, jealousy. Now taking on the Doctor Who companion, the incredible Sarah Jane Smith, was a bad move. In a personal favourite of mine, ‘School Reunion’, she took on 99%, if not the whole of the classic series fandom. Even now, as a NuWho fan, I know that nobody could even try to match Sarah Jane. However, if you went along thinking that you were your partner’s first girlfriend/boyfriend, and suddenly his/her ex that they’ve never mentioned before turns up, you’re going to be a little confused. And yes, a little jealous.

A word against Sarah Jane is considered blasphemy, but here goes. Just as we have to remember that the Doctor was equally as clingy, we have to note that Miss Smith was just a tad jealous herself. In my honest opinion, I believe that the snarky comments between them and then the full out competition was done purely for comic relief. I found the rivalry hilarious, and it actually made the eventual friendship between the two all the more sweet. Sarah Jane referred to Rose in the Sarah Jane Adventures episode, ‘Revenge of the Slitheen’, calling her a friend; both were also obviously happy to see each other again on the Crucible in ‘Journey’s End’.

Unfortunately, I can’t argue on behalf of Rose in ‘The Stolen Earth’, when she remarks ‘I was here first!’, and believe that was a mistake on RTD’s part. However, you will also notice the little glimpse at the bond/friendship/admiration/whatever-you-want-to-call-it between Rose and Martha in ‘Journey’s End’. Perhaps that’s how Rose’s friendships work, they both insult each other and then end up bezzies. As a 15 year old who is pretty socially awkward and considered by many to have nice eyes but be a little weird, I obviously know a lot about love (not). But even I can understand and sympathise that jealousy is generally a factor of love, and that if someone else enters the scene and you consider them a threat, you’ll do whatever it takes to stay with the person you love. Yet again, it is Rose’s love for the Doctor that is an explanation of her behaviour.

Her Return

rose-martha-donnaNow, her return. I’ve been honest with you up to now, so why stop? My jaw literally dropped at Rose’s cameo at the end of ‘Partners in Crime’. I was nine years old, and had no idea that Rose was slated to return for Series 4, and had not even heard the rumours. That scene was executed perfectly, particularly the use of camera angles and the music used (Rose’s departing theme, Doomsday). Although, it might seem odd, but looking back, Billie Piper’s facial expressions really impress me. From those 10 seconds, I saw sadness, disappointment, and desire to see the Doctor again, just by looking at her face. The teases of her ultimate return were also played subtly and got me even more excited.

Then came what could be a contender for the top spot on my list of ‘Best Doctor Who Episodes’, the dark, emotional roller coaster called ‘Turn Left’. Now Rose may not be the same Rose we all know and… apparently hate (and she sounded a bit odd), but that only displays the evolution of her character. She is even more brave – travelling across universes alone, leading a UNIT team, warning Donna of events to come etc. She is fiercely loyal – trying everything to get back, warning the Doctor of events to come etc. And she is just as compassionate – saving Donna and her family, holding Donna as she died etc. Rose was the only person left to aid Donna, just as Donna was the only person to aid Rose, and was the only person with the knowledge and experience to get Donna to turn left and warn the Doctor in a different universe. Also note, that the supposed selfishness and jealousy were virtually non-existent here.

I agree that her role was minimal in the finale, especially in ‘Journey’s End’, but couldn’t the same be said for other companions? Were Jack and Sarah Jane there because they were destined to become half Time Lord, or had access to top secret, dangerous UNIT technology? No. They were there because they are the Doctor’s friends, just as Rose is, and that’s the only reason they need. I wouldn’t have it any other way. In the end, she got her happy ending. For those saying that she didn’t deserve it, I think we’re forgetting that Rose Tyler has saved millions of lives, hundreds of worlds; she even helped save the whole of reality. Doesn’t deserve it my (insert rude word here). In the world of Doctor Who, I’d be lucky not to be hit by a bus, and I consider myself a pretty decent human being. Her new mission was to make Meta-Crisis Ten better, to be his doctor, just as she was for Nine. I also consider that deleted scene from ‘Journey’s End’ canon. The Doctor and Rose, in the TARDIS, as it should be.

From my point of view,’The End of Time’ cameo was perfect as well, bringing her story full circle. It showed how much Rose’s character had matured and evolved, from the naive, lost, teenage girl, to the brave, loyal, compassionate woman. If we count Billie Piper’s role in phenomenal ‘The Day of the Doctor’, she was simply outstanding. She even threatened to steal the scenes she had with John Hurt, portraying a sentient piece of machinery with a conscience, but with subtle hints of Rose embedded throughout. At least in my view!

Conclusion

So, finally, to conclude. Today, I hope to have shown you what is actually only a glimpse of the positives of Rose’s character. To me, Rose was the one thing I could have hoped for in any fictional character. She was human. And I don’t mean she wasn’t an alien, I mean that even when in life and death situations, she kept her humanity. Yes, she made mistakes. Yes, she had flaws. She was human, one of us. She was just thrown into a whole other world (both emotionally and physically). I live a middle class lifestyle. I have parents who are still together. I live in a nice house in the countryside. Rose lived a working class lifestyle. She was raised by a single mum. She lives in a council flat in London. As a person, I’m probably more like Martha, Rory or Clara. But I connect with Rose Tyler more than any other Doctor Who character, let alone any companion. Because she wasn’t perfect; she could be a little selfish, she could be a little clingy, she could be a little jealous. And do you know what, that’s fantastic. Because nobody’s perfect but in my view, Rose Tyler was pretty damn close. So even after this, you still hate Rose, it doesn’t matter me. We all love Doctor Who here; it’s what unites us. What matters to me is that you see that she did actually have some good in her, so before you start saying ‘I hate Rose, she’s a horrible person’, really think about it, look at the positives. In my view, they far outweigh the negatives. So if you managed to stay till the end, I sincerely thank you. And don’t forget to comment below and give your thoughts. Ah, Rose…

Step back in time...

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294 comments
MonicaJudithDelValle
MonicaJudithDelValle

I totally agree with you. Of course Rose is my favorite companion so I might be a bit biased. But I never thought she was selfish quite the contrary.

Scootersfood, Secret Agent of C.L.A.R.A.
Scootersfood, Secret Agent of C.L.A.R.A.

I love this list. Completely agree with it. I hate it when people hate on her for being "Jealous" with Sarah Jane. They were BOTH jealous, and who wouldn't be in that situation? Once again, I agree with everything!  (Including me thinking that Rose sounded weird when she returned.)



thribs1
thribs1

Most of what RTD did was bad. Luckily it didn't kill the series once again.

teddybowties - the one on FFN not Tumblr
teddybowties - the one on FFN not Tumblr

Wow. You are a better writer than me.  I have no problem saying that. Excellent article, breh. Excellent. Article. it made me realize again, thsoe sections of Rose's personality that were not, for me at least, adequately displayed in the writing of those episodes. ;) Thanks for the reminder!




MrsUnderhill
MrsUnderhill

Thank you for the article! Rose and Doctor/Rose story became kind of a punching bag in Doctor Who fandom, but they are loved by so many.  It's great to see the other side speaking out.

I can't say Rose is my favorite NewWho companion - that would be Donna, while I love all of them. But what I can say is that Doctor/Rose is my favorite story arc in NewWho. This love story defined both Nine and Ten runs, and gave their tenures the drama and emotional cohesion.  And it didn't overshadow Martha or Donna, or Master, or whacky adventures.



Now to critisism. Season 2  is uneven, yes. But it had brilliant episodes like SR, GitF, Impossible Planet/Satan PIt, and of course the final 2. For me Doomsday was the best finale of RTD era, it had loads of character moments, humour, plot, and the sublime ending.  

And it had just plain fun episodes like New Earth.  Mostly importantly, it was a season when Doctor and Rose were happy, and I got to appreciate it in light of bleakness of the rest of 10th story. 

Like Agatha Cristie said in S4, fun is in the chase and not in getting it, and S2, Doctor and Rose were getting it, until they were broken apart and it was back to the chase. So yes, dramatically S3 and S4 were stronger, but S2, for those how loved D/R, was just enjoyable and fun.

As for other criticism - Rose's  jealosy, for example. Now please show me any other character in DW who weren't jealous for those they loved? Mickey, Nine and Ten were jealous about Rose, Sarah Jane was jealous of the Doctor (and she started it first in SR), as well as Martha.

And it's OK, it's human , everyone who loves can't escape jealosy. What was great about all of them is that they could rise above it and relate to others in a caring, kind way. Rose and Sarah Jane, Rose and Martha - they became friends.  And Mickey and Rose were always great friends who deeply cared about each other as human beings.   

Rose didn't owe Mickey to return his feelings. Doctor didn't owe same to Martha. And Rose didn't owe it to Jackie to stay by her side and alleviate her loneliness instead of moving on with her life just because Jackie had nothing else to live for.  It was Jackie's problem, not Rose's. And the problem Jackie rose above as well. Jackie moved on with Alt!Pete, had a new family, her life was no longer empty without Rose.

And that was the whole point! That you should not be stuck pining on what you can't have and should have strength to move on. Jackie did it, Mickey did it, Martha did it, and it was great for them.  Oh, and the best advice for  a parent is to let your children go and live their own lives, build their own families. Keeping your adult children at your side by all means is not healthy, see "Psycho". 

For Rose and Doctor moving on was more difficult because they loved each other, their relationship was what both of them wanted, and both were alive. Still, Doctor was ready to move on with Astrid. And Rose - she started building that cannon when universes started collapsing, so she was quite busy. 

And when Rose and TenToo got together - I hated it when I first saw it, because it was so unfair on Ten. But later I appreciated it for its direct meaning of a parallel world in which Doctor and Rose (and TenToo was the Doctor he was the same person, parallel version) are together. The road not taken - but the Doctor managed to take both of those roads.

And yes, Rose and Doctor wanted to get together because they loved each other. It's not about clingingess, or selfishness. It's about building life together. What humans do. 







criches100
criches100

I had no idea that people hated Rose!  But I've always loved her, and not just because she was "my" first companion.  I love CE (#9) too!  Thanks for this great article, and I hope you've changed some minds :D

MaddyKika
MaddyKika

A really great article for my favorite companion! Well done James!

Nightmarish
Nightmarish

While I mostly agree, I found her return to be pretty much useless and nostalgic. Also, I think a truly motivated person wouldn't have needed the Doctor to start trying to get somewhere. If you don't have any aspirations to do anything other than work in a shop, you're going to end up in a shop. Rose was a little too dependent on the Doctor.

WilliamGlennEarly
WilliamGlennEarly

I feel that the thing people miss about RTD's run on Doctor Who, is that the five year span was one huge story arc. Rose here is not in a vacuum. She's an element of a story filled with other elements. If she were to be portrayed as the perfect companion, how would her humanity show through and shine in the midst of so many other things going on? I think Davies' run on reviving and expanding the show was brilliant--including the way the character of Rose grew, reacted, and interacted with the people and places and events with which she was confronted. Yeah, we likely could have done without some things (Love and Monsters often gets beaten up... I just thought it was funny.), but the character of Rose was essential to the development of the Doctor himself. Hate Rose, and you defacto hate the Doctor: without her, he would never have become the man whose conscience wouldn't let him be Time Lord above all else--He'd have been what we saw in the latter half of The Waters of Mars much, much earlier. Rose, whether you like her or not, matters. That is a fact of the fiction we all so much enjoy.

WhoPotterVian
WhoPotterVian

Totally agree. The hatred for Rose has never made sense to me; everyone loved her when series 1 and 2 had both aired! It's just people looking for reasons to hate RTD's writing like with Steven Moffat.

TheElusiveWhovian
TheElusiveWhovian

I felt as though she was okay in Series 1. But that's it, okay. Rose didn't do much to save the day, in a few stories, and when she did (like in Rose) it felt as though she did because the writer said she had to. And in the finale, while I did like the closure, she did nothing except moan when Jackie and Mickey got the job done by actually trying to do something.

And Series 2. I just wanted to kill her, quite frankly. I felt as though she just made fun of others because she felt entitled. And trying to win a bet among the death and murder - simply disgusting.

The way she treated other companions was ridiculous. If anyone should be making callous comments, it should be Martha, as she was the one whose tenure was ruined by Rose.

gunslinger19
gunslinger19

sorry, but i find Rose to be the worst thing about new who (though in fairness my complaints almost entirely spawn after the empty child/doctor dances). the only way i can see that would effectively defend her is by saying that her entire character was a statement on the fallibility of humans and the ability of the doctor to overlook flaws due to her being aesthetically pleasing. i say this because she, a woman who wasnt motivated herself to achieve, and wasnt especially a good or bad person but perfectly ordinary, can allow the fact that she was chosen by chance to travel with a time lord to make her think that she is the moral authority on everything and that she can mistreat her family and friends in the name of her own arrogance. poor old Jackie was left, after raising her singlehandedly after Pete's death for 19 years and begging her not to keep travelling, sitting at home and feeling that her life was meaningless. and look how much better Mickey became once Rose was out of his life. you use her disobeying the doctor as a positive, but as far as im concerned its just stupid. its obviously going to cause problems if the doctor will have to rescue you before he can focus on saving the day. in girl in the fireplace, Rose's could have just asked to come with the doctor into the past. but of course, she had to show off to Mickey. in parting of the ways, Rose claims that she cant live a normal life and behave like every other human in the world. Mickey asks if its because shes better than us and i think she thought she was. compare Rose's ability as a companion to Martha and see who the more worthy companion is. and i havnt even started in her frequent returns. i like to think of series 1 and 2 as the journey of Mickey and Jackie, some of the strongest companions that the series has ever produced.

TheNightmareChild just got fitted for a loincloth
TheNightmareChild just got fitted for a loincloth

I just wanted to bring this up because I wanted to see how many other people knew about this.  In one of the first pieces of video we got of the actual filming of series 8, there's a lovely little moment.  It's the part where Clara sort of confirms for herself that Capaldi is really the Doctor and gives him a hug.  If you have the captions on on the video, after the hug is over Capaldi mentions getting some chips, and there's an exchange involving Clara agreeing to pay for the chips since the Doctor has no money.  Obviously a call-back to The End of the World.  It's just such a sweet little tidbit that just goes to show how deeply the Doctor's companions still live within him even after... Lord, how long has it been for the Doctor?  Like, 700 years since Rose?  I can't wait to see that fully realized in the episode.

PaddyB
PaddyB

I would  be infuriated too if I wanted to talk to the Doctor and suddenly Martha's face popped up on the computer screen!

DW_girl
DW_girl

Thanks for writing this article. I really think the people here need to see the light with her character-they are blinded by what everyone else says, and they think every companion should be 'faultless'. No one is faultless, that's what makes us all unique! Rose has her faults, but think about it: that makes her a very interesting character. This is in comparison to Clara, who, even though I like, she has little development in character, which as result makes her seem entirely perfect and unrelatable. I've always loved Rose- and yes, her positives of her character weigh out the negatives by far. Everyone has a dig at her for her selfishness and the like, but seriously, if you were in the same position as her, would you stay somewhere which doesn't necessarily make you happy, or join the Doctor on his adventures?

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

Now that's just silly and provocative.

You're just stating your opinion, with no form of evidence, or reasoning, also ignoring the many viewers who loved it, and became fans of Doctor Who because of Russel T. Davies.

colincreevaz
colincreevaz

@Nightmarish  her socio-economic working class background means that she couldn't do anything BUT work minimum wage, she had no opportunities. middle class 19 year olds wouldn't say that they have 'no future' just because they lost a job, because of her background rose feels like she's got no hope.

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@WilliamGlennEarly  I don't hate 'Love and Monsters'. It's a different episode, looking at the perspective of another. They have one of those in every series (RTD series, more so).

Series 1 has 'Father's Day', which although does have a lot of The Doctor in it (he is removed half way through), is much more about Rose and her relationship with her father, and the choice he has to make.

Series 2 has 'Love and Monsters', which shows the lives of those that have been touched by The Doctor. (Also, David Tennant was apparantely busy filming the previous episode, 'The Satan Pit', which is why his participation in this was so small).

Series 3 has 'Blink', which looks at the life of one girl, and how strange happenings occur, causing The Doctor to intervene, while being trapped in the past, though it's not happened yet (etc. etc.).

Series 4 has 'Turn Left', which shows what Donna Noble's life would have been like without having met The Doctor; as well as the effect on the rest of the Earth.

Moffat doesn't continue with this, although there are some vague similarities.

Series 5/Christmas Special has 'A Christmas Carol', which is of course more about Kazran Sardick (Scrooge)

Series 6 has 'A Girl Who Waited', which is more about Amy and her morality. Though quite a few episodes in this series are more about relationships; between Amy and Rory, and Melody Pond/River Song, and The Tardis, and Craig Owens (again), and the baby.

Series 7 hasn't got anything relating to theme really. 



supermoff burning bright
supermoff burning bright

@WilliamGlennEarly  Well, it's not exactly something to miss, seeing as Series 5-TOTD was also "one huge story arc" (a better executed one, mind you). They haven't exactly gone away. 

chinnysandshoes
chinnysandshoes

Agreed. I noted her flaws (especially her smugness and entitlement), but they didn't get in the way of me enjoying the show. Until Journey's End. It was like all she did and ever can and will do is to desire to be with the Doctor. I would have thought that after all her time with the Doctor, that she would have learnt that she is capable, to BE BETTER. That was when I grew so impatient with Rose that I just wish she'd go away forever. Thank goodness she did. 


loopeedeedo
loopeedeedo

I don't "hate" Rose. She just is not my favorite. And others trash talk doesn't sway me. It was a nice arcticle, but as he stated, did not sway me.

I have some mad love for series 4. Dona is my fav companion/assistant from RTD. She was HIS BEST FRIEND, not afraid to speak, yes sometimes quite roughly, her mind. When we first met her she had no aspirations, and she "was better" because of her relationship with the Doctor.

But Rose, from the get go, wasn't for me. She was good. Her and 9 and then 10, worked. And brought me back the magic of my younger days, Doctor Who. Thanks for that.

Planet of the Deaf
Planet of the Deaf

@DW_girl I'm not sure it's true that Clara hasn't developed, the slightly suspicious Clara in BOSJ is very different from the trusting Clara in NOTD.

She may be very controlling and organised, but we see her panicking and slightly going to pieces in TOTD as her Christmas dinner goes wrong, and she needs an imaginary boyfriend...

Planet of the Deaf
Planet of the Deaf

@colincreevaz @Nightmarish A bit sweeping, plenty of people from poor backgrounds improve themselves, the UK economy was booming in 2005.


Maybe Rose just needed a push to make something in her life, we can all get stuck in a rut, accepting our fate!

chinnysandshoes
chinnysandshoes

Mickey was the true companion, IMO. He opened his mind and heart to learning from and through the Doctor. Rose 'died'. She became defined by the Doctor and only the Doctor in the end. She should have been the one to forget and Donna should have gone into that parallel Universe to shake things up for the better.


TheNightmareChild just got fitted for a loincloth
TheNightmareChild just got fitted for a loincloth

@Planet of the Deaf @DW_girl  I agree with your point overall, although I personally found the whole 'boyfriend' thing in The Time of the Doctor peculiarly out of character for her.  Clara never struck me as someone who was insecure about her relationship status, or at the very least not to the point that she would make up an imaginary boyfriend.  It's not a huge sticking point for me, but it is there.

supermoff burning bright
supermoff burning bright

@DW_girl @supermoff @Notsosmartguy  I would say the exact opposite. Moffat's arcs are far more dramatic, much more emotionally-engaging, and also concluded with a single loose end, whilst Davies' arcs were...interesting, but always the same whisper-or-phrase-repeated-through-more-or-less-every-episode-and-explained-hastily-and-with-a-usually-unsatisfactory-resolution-in-the-finale format. It's one of the many reasons I prefer Moff as showrunner; he makes the show much more interesting.  



DW_girl
DW_girl

@supermoff @NotsosmartguyIt wasn't a dull format. I prefer the arcs in the RTD series: The Bad Wolf meme (subtle links throughout the series coming to a very shocking and well-rounded conclusion in the finale), The beginnings of Torchwood (which would later become a huge part of the Doctor Who franchise), The Master's return (The Face of Boe's final words, the references to Harold Saxon and the whole Gallifrey-esque episodes came together to create a brilliant timelord-centric story arc), and then the big series 4 multi-arc plot- The DoctorDonna, the reality bomb, Rose's return, which all felt very celebratory, epic and was ultimately very exciting. RTD's arc are subtle but more dramatic, emotionally-engaging and concluded without any loose ends.

Notsosmartguy's got no strings on him
Notsosmartguy's got no strings on him

I respectfully disagree I like the direction the show has been going. Series 1 is still my favorite but the way the show was before got repetitive and really faltered in series 4. Moffat has been taking gamble and while I will acknowledge it doesn't always work out how I would like it to *cough* series 6 arc *cough* he's more than capable of making it up to me ( series 7 ROCKED though I'm in the minority on that).

Ollie Walton Harrod
Ollie Walton Harrod

@supermoff @Notsosmartguy  RTD's era wasn't exactly 'one huge story arc'.The series' just had connections with each other, and the story flowed well.

I think Moffat's era is way too arcy. The supposedly hidden arc's are obviously pointed out throughout each series, unlike the subtleties of RTD's arc's. And there is too much time spent on them too. The whole series feels like the, what were originally normal episodes, are now just fillers for the bigger story, and are unimportant. Everything doesn't have to keep linking back to one massive complex story.


supermoff burning bright
supermoff burning bright

@Notsosmartguy  Looking back on it, I suppose the RTD era was a tad "arcy" (is that a word? It should be!) but just a tad. I suppose each series had a very, very loose arc which was always the same rather dull format, but there are connections over the whole era like Donna, Wilf, Torchwood, Harriet Jones, Cult of Skaro, etc. Nowhere near as intricate and complex (or rewarding and interesting, personally) as the Series 5-7 arc, but it still had...something. Still, I wouldn't call it one huge story arc, just an interesting mix of several long-term ones. 



JustMarianna
JustMarianna

@TheNightmareChild @Notsosmartguy  I loved what she brought to Eleven's era, they were great, but yeah i agree, i think that in years to come we will think of her as 12's companion than 11's, similar to Sarah Jane Smith, who is more remembered as Four's than Three's companion.